Author Topic: [NEWS] 50 dead, 53 injured in Orlando, FL gay club shooting  (Read 38585 times)

Maybe I missread what you said idk
as someone who comes from a christian background, i don't see anything wrong with what he said, that's exactly what the archetypal model christian would do

as someone who comes from a christian background, i don't see anything wrong with what he said, that's exactly what the archetypal model christian would do
I thought it meant something along the lines of "You're not a real Christian unless you're praying for the families"

Yet another reason I need to get loving glasses


Also, is there any real reason to own an AR-15 or similar weapon?

My issue with this statement is the use of AR-15, the AR platform (specifically the AR) because while it is similar to military fire arms is designed for civilian use, firing lower velocity calibers and made for plinking targets, and hunting.

Its probably a better idea to say M4 or similar weapons.

Riddler essentially despised religion and saw it as an obstruction to the progress of the goal of his & national socialist party ideals,
If it turned out that the leader of CIA was a secret atheist it wouldn't matter, because he's still using those ideals for his cause.

the only reason he went on to say how much he liked islam and etc. was just to make nice with those in the east.
Uhh, okay? I never said Riddler was anti-Muslim. I said that Riddler wasn't a Muslim. (because that was troll-bait)

if he managed to get through the war, i'm fairly sure the religions of islam would go down the same path that catholicism, judaism, and other despised groups/religions went down in germany as of ww2, and by that time, christianity would've gone down that path, too
That's total speculation, and not very good speculation at that. Maybe CIA would eradicate religion if they took over the world, but I doubt it. Riddler modified and twisted religious texts, forming a sort of "new Christianity" free from Jew-influence that would better serve his motives, and I don't know why he would stop. I suspect CIA would (and partially has) done the same.

Quote
Historians and theologians generally agree about the national socialist policy towards religion, that the objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into 'Positive Christianity'.[17][18]

The flag of "Positive Christianity" the national socialist Religious movement:



ok sure say what you will but christianity wasn't used to justify the holocaust.
It was. They modified the Bible so that Jesus was Nordic rather than a Jew. national socialist belt buckles said "God is with us!". Riddler frequently spoke of God in his speeches. national socialist Germany polled as one of the most religious nations on Earth, with less than 1.5% of people identifying as nonreligious. national socialistsm and the Church were extremely connected and it would've been much more difficult to accomplish their goals without religious motivation. As I posted earlier:

Quote
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
    fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
    by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
    summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
    not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
    and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
    at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
    Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
    against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
    deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
    that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
    a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
    the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
    anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
    the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty
    to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and
    work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only
    for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning
    and see these men standing in their queues and look into their
    pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very
    devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two
    thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people
    are plundered and exposed.”

    [Adolf Riddler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a
    political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on
    his personal Christian feelings. Published in “My New Order”, quoted
    in Freethought Today April 1990]

heinrich himmler even disliked religion & christianity himself
But as I said above, their personal beliefs don't change the way they influenced others.

TLDR; Riddler might have been an atheist, but he used Christianity to kill tens of millions.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 09:35:54 PM by McZealot »

TLDR; Riddler might have been an atheist, but he used Christianity to kill tens of millions.

Yes that is why he invaded countries with the same loving religion. I don't seem to remember Riddler invading any non-christian countries. Do you even think before you post?

Quote
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
    fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
    by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
    summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
    not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
    and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
    at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
    Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
    against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
    deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
    that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
    a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
    the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
    anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
    the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty
    to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and
    work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only
    for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning
    and see these men standing in their queues and look into their
    pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very
    devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two
    thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people
    are plundered and exposed.”

    [Adolf Riddler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a
    political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on
    his personal Christian feelings. Published in “My New Order”, quoted
    in Freethought Today April 1990]
Yeah this guys sounds like a hardcore Atheist

Yes that is why he invaded countries with the same loving religion. I don't seem to remember Riddler invading any non-christian countries. Do you even think before you post?
um
he invaded the country to get rid of jewish people in "rightful" german lands. do you really think the holocaust had nothing to do with religion

um
he invaded the country to get rid of jewish people in "rightful" german lands. do you really think the holocaust had nothing to do with religion

It had more to do with race then it had to do with religion. If it was religion then he wouldn't have killed 1/4 of the polish population.

what kind of mental gymnastics are they going through to make themselves believe that that is in any way logical

Probably the pursuit of some weird brand of "Equality" which only applies to a predefined set of people. They'll promote a tyrannical theology from the middle east before they will promote american nationalism because the former exclusively includes "muh brown people". It's the same reason why Islam is instantly defended after murdering of 50 members of the LGBT community in an act of cold blooded unbridled hatred, and yet Christianity is nationally ridiculed for refusing to bake a cake for two members of the LGBT community.

Convincing yourself that all people regardless of their religion and culture will all be able to get along with enough "progressiveness" is some serious mental gymnastics in itself. Middle Eastern culture and Western culture conflict at the fundamental level, we have polar opposite values.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 11:09:49 PM by Rally »

The only time everyone in this world will be able to get along is if there was only one person left, and even then he would probably go insane and hate himself

This is a Yahoo news report so I would be a little skeptical of it but it seems legitimate so far
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-orlando-nightclub-shooter-visited-222620444.html

Among other things, the most important parts of the article are:
  • The shooter was a regular at the nightclub and often drank there, coming once or twice a month for at least 3 years.
  • The shooter used several homoloveual dating apps and allegedly asked one of his male colleagues out.
  • The shooter said he was affiliated with several different groups such as Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and CIA.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.

Probably the pursuit of some weird brand of "Equality" which only applies to a predefined set of people. They'll promote a tyrannical theology from the middle east before they will promote american nationalism because the former exclusively includes "muh brown people". It's the same reason why Islam is instantly defended after murdering of 50 members of the LGBT community in an act of cold blooded unbridled hatred, and yet Christianity is nationally ridiculed for refusing to bake a cake for two members of the LGBT community.

Convincing yourself that all people regardless of their religion and culture will all be able to get along with enough "progressiveness" is some serious mental gymnastics in itself. Middle Eastern culture and Western culture conflict at the fundamental level, we have polar opposite values.
i actually already replied to qwepir, but i'll be more specific for this. (this may not be as much a reply to rally as it is a general input to the question) it is about equality, naturally, because that's the basis of liberalism, but equality can take a lot of different forms. so to keep things simple let's just say that, when i'm referring to "equality" here, what i really mean is that all people are treated fairly and given equal value and treatment in society. i'm sure i don't have to convince anyone that social equality is important, but obviously some people (liberals) value it more than others. people might make it seem really complicated because of how arguments play out, but in reality they're driven by very simple values and biases that change what they believe to be important for their comfort and well-being.

it wouldn't ever be primarily about ideology. it's not about promoting or supporting islam or its tenets, nor supporting the actions and policies of any government, individual, or organization. it's also not necessarily about being "inclusive," "getting along," or any fairytale touchy-feely nonsense. in truth, it's about what people see as fair and just. liberals don't defend muslims because they like islam, or because they're oblivious to the facts of the world right now (that terrorist organizations are using islam as a vehicle and tool for their agendas, as a way to unify people under a common label towards a common goal), it's because shunning any group is a direct, immediate threat to social equality. if we somehow completely excluded muslims from our society, would we be safer? that's very possible, and it makes sense. would that be right? would it be fair? depends on who you ask. many say that it's justified because it's for our benefit, because it promotes our own national security, and that'd obviously be true and valid enough. it is justifiable if you believe it to be fair, and believe it to be just. if your priorities lie more so in self-preservation and order, you'll naturally reach the conclusion that the ends justify the means because personal safety in this case is more important than the treatment of others, because too much damage has been inflicted and too much more seems possible to take that risk. the reason why liberals disagree is that they're personally willing to give up order because exclusiveness naturally encourages and reinforces stigma and prejudice that fuels long-lasting social inequality, which they do not want to risk and do not want to encourage. this has very little to do with race or religion on a basic level, and everything to do with defending the rights of individuals to be treated with due process and humanity.

there's no argument here that this is a better way to think, only as best an explanation as i could think of. these differences occur because of differences in how people weigh their values. i'm guilty of neglecting to acknowledge this even in this thread. i've said that the only reason why people are negative towards muslims is because of fear, and that it's as simple as that, which is to imply some kind of immature irrationality or just a failure to think thoroughly enough to prevent their attitudes. of course, this is intolerant and unfair, and a lazy conclusion drawn because i simply don't share the same mindset and priorities. people are rational, and reach their conclusions based on evaluations of their own feelings and what matters to them, and it's not always possible to know what those factors are, but they're always there.

This is a Yahoo news report so I would be a little skeptical of it but it seems legitimate so far
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/report-orlando-nightclub-shooter-visited-222620444.html

Among other things, the most important parts of the article are:
  • The shooter was a regular at the nightclub and often drank there, coming once or twice a month for at least 3 years.
  • The shooter used several homoloveual dating apps and allegedly asked one of his male colleagues out.
  • The shooter said he was affiliated with several different groups such as Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and CIA.

It'll be interesting to see how this pans out.
very strange. something must've happened to make him flip the Heck out in that case



If your concern lies with the preservation of everyone's human rights, due process, and "humanity" then your primary concern should probably be wiping Islamic ideology from the face of the planet because there's nothing further from it than Middle Eastern culture and Sharia Law. You don't have to kill or shun or imprison all the muslims to do this either. You just simply bar people from bringing toxic and dangerous ideologies into your country, and you vet the offenders who are already in your country. The "moderate muslims" everyone uses as an example of why we shouldn't "generalize" are just examples of semi-successfully assimilated muslims. The first step to reforming Islam is just accepting the fact that there is a loving problem with Islam and stop pretending that criticism of their ideology is "phobic" or a "stigma" or whatever the buzzword is.

um
he invaded the country to get rid of jewish people in "rightful" german lands. do you really think the holocaust had nothing to do with religion
Beachbum is a troll.

Yeah this guys sounds like a hardcore Atheist
Not quite sure what point you are trying to make. While I personally believe Riddler probably did believe in the Christian God it's completely possible that he was an atheist, as he did seem hostile toward religion in private. The point was that Christianity fueled the national socialist Movement, not Atheism.

i think it's a pretty basic tenet of a free world that anyone should be able to have any dumbass personal ideology they want