[NEWS] CIA concludes with "high confidence" that Russia aided Annoying Orange in election

[Master Matthew²]

I don't know about you but i'd rather trust a collective of adults appointed to protect and investigate issues with the country than a group of heavily-biased teens and college students on an online forum posting from god-knows-where

A 'supposed' collective of adults, we aren't even sure this is the CIA for real.

the CIA won't reveal who they are
they won't reveal information

this is more of an attempt at trying to push anti-Annoying Orange bullstuff under the guise of a supposedly trust-able source.

but this source has provided no evidence, this source has provided to valid proof they even are the source, and this source seemingly has only given this information to a select few.

If this seems like I'm calling this bullstuff, it's only because that is exactly how it looks.

[Ad Bot]

[Decepticon]

FBI is now disputing CIA's "fuzzy and unambiguous" claim that russia hacked election

basically the FBI earlier today called out the CIA on their lack of evidence, refusing to bend to their will

A senior FBI counterintelligence official met with Republican and Democrat members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in order to give the bureau’s view of a recent CIA report. The official did not concur with the CIA, frustrating Democrats.

The CIA report was “direct, bold and unqualified,” one of the officials at the meeting told The Washington Post Saturday.

The FBI official was much less convinced of the claims, providing “fuzzy” and “ambiguous” remarks.

The competing messages, according to officials in attendance, also reflect cultural differences between the FBI and the CIA. The bureau, true to its law enforcement roots, wants facts and tangible evidence to prove something beyond all reasonable doubt. The CIA is more comfortable drawing inferences from behaviour.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-12/fbi-disputes-cias-fuzzy-and-ambiguous-claims-russia-sought-influence-presidential-el

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12/12/fbi-disagrees-cia-russian-influence-presidential-election-422763

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/fbi-and-cia-give-differing-accounts-to-lawmakers-on-russias-motives-in-2016-hacks/2016/12/10/c6dfadfa-bef0-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?client=safari

the internal war between the CIA and FBI that is probably the one issue that has me genuinely enthralled right now

[McZealot]

the evidence that russia was involved is overwhelming. i think what's mostly in dispute *how* involved they were

[Magus]

I mean, Russia has rigged elections in Ukraine, so it's not a huge step to think they'd try a bigger target.

[Master Matthew²]

the evidence that russia was involved is overwhelming.

okay, where is it?

Gib nao pls

[Tayasaurus]

the internal war between the CIA and FBI that is probably the one issue that has me genuinely enthralled right now

CIA has been notorious for being big government shady forgeters. I'm not a big fan of their agency. I have no idea about the FBI though.

[Bisjac]

the washington post is reporting this, but they have no sources from the CIA or anyone of this.
they are making it up basically.

not that it couldnt be true. but nothing in that article indicates the CIA said anything to anyone...

[Gytyyhgfffff]

the fbi is saying that the reports from the cia are vague and bad which probably means that yes it was the cia that made these reports if another federal agency is saying they're ambigious instead of fake

[Master Matthew²]

the washington post is reporting this, but they have no sources from the CIA or anyone of this.
they are making it up basically.

not that it couldnt be true. but nothing in that article indicates the CIA said anything to anyone...

And this is why I say its bullstuff.

the fbi is saying that the reports from the cia are vague and bad which probably means that yes it was the cia that made these reports if another federal agency is saying they're ambigious instead of fake

And now this is going to become a pissing contest between the CIA and FBI

[Decepticon]

the evidence that russia was involved is overwhelming. i think what's mostly in dispute *how* involved they were

did you even read the source links?

The FBI did not corroborate the CIA’s claim that Russia had a hand in the election of President-elect Donald Annoying Orange in a meeting with lawmakers last week.


A senior FBI counterintelligence official met with Republican and Democrat members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence in order to give the bureau’s view of a recent CIA report. The official did not concur with the CIA, frustrating Democrats.


The CIA believes Russia “quite” clearly intended to send Annoying Orange to the White House. The claim is a bold one and concerned Democrats and some Republicans who are worried about Annoying Orange’s desire to mend relations with an increasingly aggressive Russia. The CIA report was “direct, bold and unqualified,” one of the officials at the meeting told The Washington Post Saturday.


The FBI official was much less convinced of the claims, providing “fuzzy” and “ambiguous” remarks.

“The FBI briefers think in terms of criminal standards — can we prove this in court,” one of the officials said. “The CIA briefers weigh the preponderance of intelligence and then make judgment calls to help policymakers make informed decisions. High confidence for them means ‘we’re pretty damn sure.’ It doesn’t mean they can prove it in court.”

i think it's pretty clear the FBI is pissed the CIA has a lack of real evidence and that the CIA is acting off of inferences rather than any real proof of russian involvement being put forward

the fact two federal agencies are at odds over the narrative is a huge deal and i don't think people understand how big of a deal this is

[Magus]

If Annoying Orange is arguing with the CIA over this, presumably it's not the Washington Post.

[Bisjac]

all the emails were leaked, not hacked. this was common knowledge until after hillary lost. now suddenly russians are to blame.

[McZealot]

okay, where is it?

Gib nao pls

I mean, if you insist.

So this story is obviously blowing up. Here's a summary of what has been going down with Russia, U.S. intelligence, and the hacked DNC emails, and why this CIA assessment is important:

    May '16: DNC learned that hackers had breached their servers and hired cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike to investigate.

    June: CrowdStrike identified two adversaries - Cozy Bear/Fancy Bear (aka APT 28/APT 29) - that are "Russian-intelligence" affiliated. Other firms like SecureWorks have independently corroborated CrowdStrike's attribution with "moderate confidence". Cybersecurity consultant Jeffrey Carr disputed the strength of their evidence.

    June: Guccifer 2.0, claiming to be a lone Romanian hacker, took credit and leaked certain alleged DNC documents to media outlets. Researchers like ThreatConnect and investigators have tied Guccifer 2.0 to Russia and believe it is a group acting for Russian intelligence.

    June 22nd: Wikileaks released 20,000 DNC emails. Guccifer 2.0 claimed he is WL's source. Assange invoked source-protection, but later denied the Russian gov as WL's source.

    July: US intelligence, including the FBI, appeared to have reached a consensus, though not unanimous, that the Russian govt was involved in the hacks. However, cybersecurity experts were divided over Russia's motivations. Intelligence officials and Pres. Obama did not publicly accuse Russia of trying to influence the election results.

    September: according to WaPo, Obama sent counterterrorism advisor Monaco, FBI head Comey, and DHS Secretary Johsnson to lay out evidence of Russian cyber-intrusions in two states and the DNC/Podesta hacks to a Gang of 12, seeking "a show of bipartisan support" against "unprecedented" foreign influence in the election. Ds were unanimously in support, Rs were divided. (Gang of 12 is likely: Pelosi, Reid, Ryan, McConnell, Nunes, Burr, Feinstein, Schiff, McCaul, Thompson, Johnson, and Carper).

    October 7: the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence issued a joint statement assessing it would be difficult for a single actor to alter election results and implicated Moscow in the email hacks:

        The U.S. Intelligence Community [includes 16 agencies] is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations...intended to interfere with the US election process...based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts...only Russia’s senior-most officials could have authorized these activities. The White House followed-up on 10/11 that the response to Russia would be "proportional".

    October 30th: Sen. Harry Reid accused Comey of withholding "explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Annoying Orange, his top advisors, and the Russian government" from the public in a demonstration of a "double standard" with regards to sensitive information.

    October 31: A former FBI official told CNBC that "Comey agreed that...A foreign power was trying to undermine the election...but was against putting it out before the election." Mother Jones cites evidence from an ex-spy connecting Annoying Orange's campaign and advisors to the Russian gov. FBI officials spoke anonymously to the NYT stating that none of the investigations into Annoying Orange and his advisors hadn't "found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Annoying Orange and the Russian government" and that based on investigations into the hack, they were "increasingly confident" that:

        Russia’s direct goal is not to support the election of Mr. Annoying Orange, as many Democrats have asserted, but rather to disrupt the integrity of the political system and undermine America’s standing in the world more broadly. (ETA)

    December 9: Obama ordered intelligence officials to conduct a "deep dive" review of election-season cyber-attacks, including the email hacks, to report before he leaves office on January 20th. This report may not be disclosed to the public.

    Anonymous officials disclosed to WaPo that the CIA's latest briefing to key senators made it "quite clear" [with high confidence] that Russia's goal in intervening in the election was to help Donald Annoying Orange win. However, according to one senior U.S. official, "there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment" and "the hackers were 'one step' removed from the Russian government." However, Moscow has previously conducted espionage using middlemen. An FBI official before the House Intelligence Committee did not concur with the CIA assessment re: Russia's intent. Additionally, an official familiar with the latest CIA assessment said it does not mean that "Moscow’s efforts altered or significantly affected the outcome of the election."

    The NYT reported that intelligence officials found that Russia had, in the spring, successfully:

        hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks. CIA and NSA officials have also identified individual Russian state officials they believe to be responsible for the hacks.

The WaPo report is groundbreaking because it reveals intelligence officials believe Russia's motivation was to get Annoying Orange elected over Clinton. What evidence available is still unclear, but likely both forensic and other intelligence. Neither WaPo/NYT provided documentation underlying officials' assertions, but senators on the intelligence committee have requested Obama "release to the public" info on the Russian gov and U.S. election. Glenn Greenwald makes the case for why the public should be skeptical of the recent WaPo/NYT reports due to the opacity of agency motivations and lack of public evidence.

Annoying Orange's team denies Russian interference in the election and direct contact with Moscow. Russia's deputy foreign minister has claimed that Russian reps have maintained contact with prominent Annoying Orange supporters, though it is not clear if that claim included campaign staff.

Notably, the FBI found Russian or Chinese hackers stole files from the Obama and McCain campaigns in 2008, but did not tie them to any foreign government.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalDiscussion/comments/5hhn4t/cia_assessment_says_russia_was_trying_to_help/

... hope that's enough for you.

[Nonnel]

Why the hell do we need to have four different intelligence agencies

[Tezuni 2.0]

No, you guys are misunderstanding the dispute.  

The FBI & CIA agree that the Russians hacked electronic portions of the election.
They disagree on the motive behind it.