proposed fix to base raiders

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

   so i've noticed many base raiders servers usually progress from various factions scrambling for printers into one hegemonic gang controlling the entirety of the printers with a wicked sick base that nobody can penetrate because they spent a trillion dollars making it. this phenomena is illustrated in the graph below



   from what i've seen this is generally regarded as a problem by base raiders hosts with the coding ability to try and fix it as getting routinely spawnkilled by guys with superweapons because you can buy a butterfly knife every six minutes is about as fun as it sounds. the usual solution is to make passive money accumulation amazingly fast, shifting the balance between raiding and defending heavily in the favor of the raider who now can just buy all the superweapons and stuff without printers and making printers worthless. this does technically "solve" the problem by removing the resource war entirely but the resource war is the entire point of base raiders.

  a better solution would be to just cut that stuff off before it even begins by adding a win condition that resets the map, money, weaponry, and everything else. if one gang holds a supermajority of printers for a long enough time they win the game, leaving the gang that would normally make life hell for everyone else on the server happy while also not making life hell for everyone else on the server. it would also discourage and make temporary the gang alliances that form now since only the people in the original gang will win the game.

to go along with this i'd suggest buffing printers so that they earn their cost of planting back in a reasonable time and the money they make can actually be used to buy guns.

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[DestroyerOfBlocks]

by the way i told jack noyer about this stuff before i made the topic and he didnt do forgetign anything with it because hes making despair 2yndrome which sucks ass

[Conan]

well if you remove the need for resource war nobody will resource war and it will devolve into fort wars with cash limitations and build cycle

[Blockhead31735]

This is essentially just having short rounds of base raiders. When Jack hosted it this way didn't find it very fun. Think bigger problem with base raiders is the usually garbage hosts but that can't really be fixed.

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

This is essentially just having short rounds of base raiders. When Jack hosted it this way didn't find it very fun. Think bigger problem with base raiders is the usually garbage hosts but that can't really be fixed.

a bad host isn't a unique problem to base raiders. you're going to have to elaborate on why jack's server wasn't fun

[Blockhead31735]

a bad host isn't a unique problem to base raiders. you're going to have to elaborate on why jack's server wasn't fun

In a game where point is to gradually gain power and hosts can just give it to themselves incredibly easily find base raiders to be hosted by some of worst people.

That's besides point. Didn't find Jack's fun because there was no purpose to it. You try to win just so you gain nothing out of it. There's no point in trying to collect all the power just so it can be reset along with all the money and map.

Having a reset at majority power controlled also means there's no point in raiding. If two gangs split power 50/50 and just not attack each other the problem still persists in that one group has most of the stuff. You're not fixing anything, just making it annoying.

[Conan]

another proiblem with win conditions is that new joiners will always be behind and essentially have no reason to play until next round starts.

it would be better if base raiders was essentially an enhanced version of a tdm/ctf where you build bases and earn money to build bases and buy weapons. then there is an inherent win condition, new joiners aren't immediately at a disadvantage, and there is real factional fighting. only problem would be figuring out how to distribute money and such.

[Gytyyhgfffff]

it would be better if base raiders was essentially an enhanced version of a tdm/ctf where you build bases and earn money to build bases and buy weapons. then there is an inherent win condition, new joiners aren't immediately at a disadvantage, and there is real factional fighting. only problem would be figuring out how to distribute money and such.

i actually attempted this years back with my own server upgrade ctf where kills were your currency and you could use those kills to buy base improvements/weapons for your teams. in practice people pooled up their money into one trusted individual and that individual would buy the weapons/base improvements they said they would buy, since there was no mechanism for creating a team point pool. the base improvements were sort of like those old roblox tycoons where you would press a button and an extension for the original structure would appear. the server was popular for a short time when it had a good map (it later had a map created that was too large which was pretty bad) but i couldn't tell you how good i thought it was because that was 2 years ago.

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

In a game where point is to gradually gain power and hosts can just give it to themselves incredibly easily find base raiders to be hosted by some of worst people.

That's besides point. Didn't find Jack's fun because there was no purpose to it. You try to win just so you gain nothing out of it. There's no point in trying to collect all the power just so it can be reset along with all the money and map.

Having a reset at majority power controlled also means there's no point in raiding. If two gangs split power 50/50 and just not attack each other the problem still persists in that one group has most of the stuff. You're not fixing anything, just making it annoying.

hosts can do that in basically every game, spawning enough money to get a ryno v is essentially the same as spawning a ryno v in a normal game. base raiders is slightly more subject to this problem due to the placing stuff in other people's bases rules being subjective but those are relatively streamlined and easy for everyone to interpret. a game where administration plays a heavy heavy role in keeping the game functioning would be something like medieval rp and mafia madness.

you can make the same point about normal base raiders lacking a goal and just being and endless accumulation of power that ultimately wins nobody anything because there is nothing to win and thus there is no reason to collect power. if you want to get philosophical this can be expanded to there is no real reason to do anything so we should all just kill ourselves.

that sort of scenario is discouraged more in this theoretical version of base raiders as it least incentivizes the breaking of ties for victory. it would be like half the players in a free for all uniting to kill all the other players; you can't stop it but it probably won't happen because the goal of the game incentivizes killing everyone else. raiding is incentivized by the same principle.

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

another proiblem with win conditions is that new joiners will always be behind and essentially have no reason to play until next round starts.

it would be better if base raiders was essentially an enhanced version of a tdm/ctf where you build bases and earn money to build bases and buy weapons. then there is an inherent win condition, new joiners aren't immediately at a disadvantage, and there is real factional fighting. only problem would be figuring out how to distribute money and such.

new players are hugely disadvantaged in old base raiders already because there is no wealth reset. new base raiders would at least offer them respite through regular wealth distribution. i agree with the second thing but this is supposed to be a fix that favors ease of doing so that people actually do it.

[Blockhead31735]

hosts can do that in basically every game, spawning enough money to get a ryno v is essentially the same as spawning a ryno v in a normal game. base raiders is slightly more subject to this problem due to the placing stuff in other people's bases rules being subjective but those are relatively streamlined and easy for everyone to interpret. a game where administration plays a heavy heavy role in keeping the game functioning would be something like medieval rp and mafia madness.

you can make the same point about normal base raiders lacking a goal and just being and endless accumulation of power that ultimately wins nobody anything because there is nothing to win and thus there is no reason to collect power. if there is no real reason to do anything so we should all just kill ourselves.

that sort of scenario is discouraged more in this theoretical version of base raiders than normal base raiders as new base raiders at least incentivizes the breaking of ties for victory. it would be like half the players in a free for all uniting to kill all the other players; you can't stop it but it probably won't happen because the goal of the game incentivizes killing everyone else. raiding is incentivized by the same principle.

Alright fair. For some reason though always find crappy hosts for Base Raiders. Oh well.

Normal base raiders goal is to get as powerful as you can. New base raiders it doesn't matter what you do. In the end everyone is back at the same spot.

But why would say those two gangs who control 50/50 fight? So one can get majority, get pride of winning, then get put on same grounds as everyone else? Heck you don't even need two gangs. One gang controls as much power as they can without going over the threshold and then just purging everyone else that tries to get power. Same no competition, except with slightly less power for the big gang.

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

Normal base raiders goal is to get as powerful as you can. New base raiders it doesn't matter what you do. In the end everyone is back at the same spot.

But why would say those two gangs who control 50/50 fight? So one can get majority, get pride of winning, then get put on same grounds as everyone else? Heck you don't even need two gangs. One gang controls as much power as they can without going over the threshold and then just purging everyone else that tries to get power. Same no competition, except with slightly less power for the big gang.

the goal of new base raiders is also to get as powerful as you can, its just that when you hit that stage where you are irrevocably able to dominate the entire server the game resets before that stuff goes on for hours at a time.

   if a goal is presented before clearly before players they will try to achieve that goal. there is no real reason to accumulate power in base raiders except for its own sake but people do it anyway. there is no real reason to kill people in a tdm except for the sake of winning, of which there is no reason to pursue, but people do it anyway. people have hosted servers where you literally just walk up stairs for hours and people do that stuff anyway. players do these things because they enjoy them and because that is the goal presented, but when a scenario like in the op happens and players are incapable of doing stuff because they keep getting forgeted over there is a problem.

   the two-gang scenario is possible but as previously stated is less likely than in traditional base raiders. for the one gang controlling everything scenario, slightly less power can be significant depending on what threshold the gang needs to pass to win and its an improvement over normal base raiders where one gang would own all the power and there would be no possible chance of retribution. it isn't possible to solve the whole players griefing stuff by not winning scenario unless you go the tdm route and make it so one player doing something wins the game regardless of others, but that is just the nature of base raiders and without more significant revisions than what i proposed it is not possible.

a lot of these problems probably stem form jack noyer hosting because hes jack noyer and likely flubbed my idea significantly and loveually assaulted the playerbase

[Crystalwarrior]

a lot of these problems probably stem form jack noyer hosting because hes jack noyer and likely flubbed my idea significantly and loveually assaulted the playerbase

shut up cigarettebasket i did your idea exactly as you told me to

[DestroyerOfBlocks]

shut up cigarettebasket i did your idea exactly as you told me to

my idea is pretty easy to blow since it lacks any solid numbers on how long it should take to win and what percent of printers you need and other stuff plus you're using an entirely new weapon pack

[The Brighter Dark]

For some reason though always find crappy hosts for Base Raiders. Oh well.

probably because all the hosts who actually have brains know that baseraiders is flawed. At least until it has actual goals to achieve