[Real News] Obamacare Repeal Fails

[Tactical Nuke]

half of me is sad that it isn't repealed and the other half is happy because any replacement drawn up thus far is basically obamacare lite

[Ad Bot]

[Bisjac]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/obama-calls-for-courage-to-fix-obamacare

now obama is begging the dems to repair his broken bill.

forget him and his bad idea. im glad its falling flat on it's face. they can own it and will look the fools when it happens (its been already happening for a year and its glorious)

[Trymos]

this makes absolutely no sense. why the forget would they need to bring it to a "breaking point" when they have FULL CONTROL OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS. they dont need to force the democrats into any kind of compromise at all.

do you seriously think democrats have almost no power whatsoever?

the far right republicans want a more extreme healthcare bill
the moderate republicans want more of an obamacare lite
the democrats want to stick with obamacare going towards single payer, so everybody on the democrat party is gonna vote no to either of the above constantly, giving the republicans a stuffton less leeway to work with.

believe it or not: not everybody in a party agrees on the exact same things, wouldn't you think they would have passed a healthcare bill a long ass time ago if this was the case? either they make a compromise with themselves or with the democrats.

pretty much their only choice is to do "nothing at all" because they hold no majorities nor the presidency. you can't "stonewall" legislation if you dont have even a tie in either house or the presidency. the stuff they CAN do (like filibustering) wont stop anything, itll just delay it
your entire dumb argument was predicated on the notion that democrats have any legislative power at all right now

think of it this way: democrats and independents alone can't prevent a bill from getting passed if every republican votes for it.
but that's implying every republican votes for it. they don't hold a supermajority, only a majority. implying that they have no power at all is handicapped of a notion. there are 52 republican senators, 46 democratic senators and 2 independent senators who generally lean left wing when it comes to healthcare bills.

historically every time republicans pushed a healthcare bill almost every democrat and independents voted no, so the amount of leeway the republicans have is 2-4 defectors max. so if at least 3-5 people on the republicans vote no that's it.
and with the moderate/far right healthcare divide on the republicans end this is problematic. you can get a lot of the republicans to compromise on their own healthcare bill since it's better than obamacare but due to the few that refuse to take the compromise, these bills can't pass.

no power my ass.

[ultimamax]

do you seriously think democrats have almost no power whatsoever?

the far right republicans want a more extreme healthcare bill
the moderate republicans want more of an obamacare lite
the democrats want to stick with obamacare going towards single payer, so everybody on the democrat party is gonna vote no to either of the above constantly, giving the republicans a stuffton less leeway to work with.

believe it or not: not everybody in a party agrees on the exact same things, wouldn't you think they would have passed a healthcare bill a long ass time ago if this was the case? either they make a compromise with themselves or with the democrats.

i think youre underestimating the level to which partisanship is going to carry this process. i dont think most elected democrats have anything to gain by compromising, and i also don't think far right republicans and moderate republicans really disagree that much. its not like there is any significant faction of extremely libertarian/ancap republicans.

think of it this way: democrats and independents alone can't prevent a bill from getting passed if every republican votes for it.
but that's implying every republican votes for it. they don't hold a supermajority, only a majority. implying that they have no power at all is handicapped of a notion. there are 52 republican senators, 46 democratic senators and 2 independent senators who generally lean left wing when it comes to healthcare bills.

historically every time republicans pushed a healthcare bill almost every democrat and independents voted no, so the amount of leeway the republicans have is 2-4 defectors max. so if at least 3-5 people on the republicans vote no that's it.
and with the moderate/far right healthcare divide on the republicans end this is problematic. you can get a lot of the republicans to compromise on their own healthcare bill since it's better than obamacare but due to the few that refuse to take the compromise, these bills can't pass.

no power my ass.

i think the only reason any republicans defected at all during the skinny repeal is because of how dumb an idea it is to risk leaving the country with no system in place whatsoever. i definitely see some discord in the party when it comes to following the president but i dont think theyre as divided about healthcare as you say they are. if you have any examples though id like to see them

[McZealot]

Annoying Orange used to advocate for universal healthcare before his corporate sponsors convinced him to run with a more pharma-friendly bill. he cucked all of his supporters and they love it

[Acerblock]

In this case, the best option is objectively single-payer universal healthcare.

Not necessarily. There are all kinds of universal health care system across the world. Some of them even mix private insurance with public options. I just think we should pick a system that is best for a country as set up like America.

[Deus Ex]

I'm all for that.
Which is ideal because...?

Technically speaking it's ideal for Republicans because if they simply try to repair it and it blows up anyway it's gonna be on them. If they repeal it the problem will be solved. The third option is to just leave it alone and let it blow up on it's own, as it inevitably will, and make the democrats look like a bunch of forgetheads. The problem w/ the third option is that the Republicans will also look like a bunch of forgetheads because they're the ones with the voting power to change it anyway.

[Karl Marx]

Not necessarily. There are all kinds of universal health care system across the world. Some of them even mix private insurance with public options. I just think we should pick a system that is best for a country as set up like America.

Fair enough, I guess.

[Pecon]

Technically speaking it's ideal for Republicans because if they simply try to repair it and it blows up anyway it's gonna be on them. If they repeal it the problem will be solved. The third option is to just leave it alone and let it blow up on it's own, as it inevitably will, and make the democrats look like a bunch of forgetheads. The problem w/ the third option is that the Republicans will also look like a bunch of forgetheads because they're the ones with the voting power to change it anyway.

But you see, the entire reason repeal and leave failed is because it would literally kill people. People would die because they no longer could get the medical care they need. I don't know how you can think that letting people die is the best course of action when the status quo is enabling those people to live. If the republicans had a healthcare plan ready to immediately replace the ACA that wouldn't cause people to die, you can be certain it would have passed.

[Drydess]

it's less that it would kill someone because honestly every congress decision kills someone
it's the sheer magnitude of ethical destruction of reducing the number of healthy people for no valuable reason

[Red Spy]

it's less that it would kill someone because honestly every congress decision kills someone
it's the sheer magnitude of ethical destruction of reducing the number of healthy people for no valuable reason

imo saying that if obamacare is repealed a massive chunk of the population will drop dead is loving stupid

[McZealot]

imo saying that if obamacare is repealed a massive chunk of the population will drop dead is loving stupid

there are people who receive medication costing upwards of $1000 a month completely free under the ACA. if the ACA was repealed and they were no longer covered, they would have to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year simply to stay alive. most people do not have that kind of money lying around and the obvious result is that many people would fail to receive treatment and die of their illnesses.

you are hoping for poor people to die so you can save money on taxes. there is no way around that fact. it's selfish.

[Drydess]

imo saying that if obamacare is repealed a massive chunk of the population will drop dead is loving stupid

i would imagine a good deal of people on the poorer side that suddenly lose the coverage they need would suddenly be pretty screwed financially, or if it's not a dire need to have whatever medication they need it would just be a pain in the ass and generally unhealthy

[Deus Ex]

you are hoping for poor people to die so you can save money on taxes. there is no way around that fact. it's selfish.

Oh dude can you loving not? No one is HOPING for people to die, what we're hoping for is to not get taxed up the ass to pay for other people's health conditions. It's not rocket science. If they die as a result of us paying taxes that's not our fault. Really sick and tired of people trying to browbeat those who don't want Obamacare by saying we want people drop dead on the street, I mean honestly who the forget even thinks like that

imo saying that if obamacare is repealed a massive chunk of the population will drop dead is loving stupid

Exactly this. Stop acting like people are just gonna suddenly DIE if Obamacare get's repealed, that's not how reality works. You guys realize how massaged the numbers are on the amount of people who would really lose healthcare? There's millions of people who don't even want the insurance they have but it's either that or pay Obamacare's bullstuff mandate tax.

[Drydess]

so...you think that having healthcare with worse coverage wouldn't do any harm to people...?