Author Topic: Sonic Forces released. Unsurpisingly bad.  (Read 9125 times)

All sonic games exist in the realm of mediocrity, and sonic forces is mediocre at best. In that sense forces is surprising because it's actually good for a sonic game. sonic riders is the ONLY sonic game in which you can actually live up to the 'fast' speed gameplay without hitting one random enemy and coming to a complete halt. That being said, any sonic game that isn't a racing game isn't good, which is why sonic forces isn't good- it's a sonic game.

Also known as a 'go really fast, slow down and break all pacing, repeat' game

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 07:04:15 PM by PhantOS »

All sonic games exist in the realm of mediocrity, and sonic forces is mediocre at best. In that sense forces is surprising because it's actually good for a sonic game. sonic riders is the ONLY sonic game in which you can actually live up to the 'fast' speed gameplay without hitting one random enemy and coming to a complete halt. That being said, any sonic game that isn't a racing game isn't good, which is why sonic forces isn't good- it's a sonic game.

Also known as a 'go really fast, slow down and break all pacing, repeat' game





do you think sonic r is a good game phanto

All sonic games exist in the realm of mediocrity
https://niceme.me

sonic riders is the ONLY sonic game in which you can actually live up to the 'fast' speed gameplay without hitting one random enemy and coming to a complete halt. That being said, any sonic game that isn't a racing game isn't good, which is why sonic forces isn't good- it's a sonic game.

Also known as a 'go really fast, slow down and break all pacing, repeat' game
Sounds to me like you're just not good at Sonic games.

Speaking of level design, apparently the level design team only consists of three people, that being the level designer for Lost World, and two new guys


So basically this version of the Sonic engine is apparently 2.0, but its really the Sonic Lost World engine. So in Sonic Lost World, they completely changed up Sonic's controls and physics, making him a mix of Dreamcast sonic + a platforming style akin to Mario Galaxy. Honestly I love Lost World, I really do and I really only like 2 other 3D sonic games, but I see why making this level designer head of Forces was such a stuff show. This designer was NEW. We should assume his only work in Sonic games was a complete spin off essentially that was to deviate from standard Boost Formula Sonic. Lost World's level design was for the most part really good! It fit the physics of Sonic, his new abilities, the Mario Galaxy rip off feel, etc. But holy stuff, this guy should not design the next BOOST FORMULA SONIC GAME. Especially the Classic Sonic stages, because literally the majority of my hate towards Lost World were the 2D sections. Not only that, but Sonic Forces  Sonic is literally a bandaged and emulating version of the Boost Sonic. Basically, they took modern Sonic in Lost World, completely ripped some physic nuances, changed his gameplay, made him floaty, and changed all the level design so it would FIT this version of Sonic. Then, decided to repurpose THAT version of Sonic and give him back his weird "not the same" boost mechanic that was only used in Sonic Lost World for Super Sonic only. Ugh what a loving mess. Sonic Forces level design is stuff, the designer really has no experience at all in designing a Modern Sonic game that wasn't some wacky spin off one, also using Sonic Lost World sonic is loving handicapped, he controls like stuff, feels like stuff, the boost is stupid as hell, physics are actually loving broken (I've played the game 3 times already on Switch, PS4, and PC), and nothing loving works in this game. Lol they even gimped classic Sonic. I literally can't even comprehend that. They GIMPED CLASSIC SONIC. They got rid of his loving catapulting spin dash and replaced it with the sonic mania drop dash and not only that, but level design is basically   "cube like."

https://niceme.me
Sounds to me like you're just not good at Sonic games.
i know people who are amazing at bad rats, that doesn't make the game any less stuffty. Yeah, I'm comparing sonic to bad rats. Any game where you can go from running faster than the screen can generate to slamming head on into a set of spikes and losing all momentum isn't worth much praise. People who defend any 2d sonic game are nostalgia blinded and clearly not thinking rationally

Don't get me wrong, all the 2d sonics are better than most 3D sonic games (riders being an exception) but that doesn't make them good games. They are all flawed in their own way, mainly due to the awful level design that exists in every one of them. They have poor pacing and almost no level design features that take advantage of sonic's mechanics. The rare assets that do (i.e. Spiny cork that you run on and spins up) are used so sparingly that it is meaningless. In every aspect, sonic is a generic platformer/hold righter that praises itself on being "too fast" but immediately crashes into the nearest utility pole, killing the driver on impact. It's not fun, and when it comes to prices, you'd have so much more fun spending money on a refined platformer, such as Mario, metroid if or castlevania, all games whose level design brings out the best of the games core mechanics

Sonic is terrible at worst, mediocre at best. The game ends once the game designers prevent you from going fast, which is always
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 01:15:45 AM by PhantOS »

[img height=400]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lDnsVaNzPnk/maxresdefault.jpg[

do you think sonic r is a good game phanto
can you feel the sunshine? does it brighten up your day


[img ]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/74371816000327680/379878190660845569/23380327_892158894273095_7747909349498173631_n.png[/img]
But wait, they only have 7 critics compared to Might No. 9's 13! Maybe things will be different once a few more people have reviewed the game!

[im g]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/74371816000327680/379878190660845569/23380327_892158894273095_7747909349498173631_n.png[/img]

i know people who are amazing at bad rats, that doesn't make the game any less stuffty. Yeah, I'm comparing sonic to bad rats. Any game where you can go from running faster than the screen can generate to slamming head on into a set of spikes and losing all momentum isn't worth much praise. People who defend any 2d sonic game are nostalgia blinded and clearly not thinking rationally

Don't get me wrong, all the 2d sonics are better than most 3D sonic games (riders being an exception) but that doesn't make them good games. They are all flawed in their own way, mainly due to the awful level design that exists in every one of them. They have poor pacing and almost no level design features that take advantage of sonic's mechanics. The rare assets that do (i.e. Spiny cork that you run on and spins up) are used so sparingly that it is meaningless. In every aspect, sonic is a generic platformer/hold righter that praises itself on being "too fast" but immediately crashes into the nearest utility pole, killing the driver on impact. It's not fun, and when it comes to prices, you'd have so much more fun spending money on a refined platformer, such as Mario, metroid if or castlevania, all games whose level design brings out the best of the games core mechanics

Sonic is terrible at worst, mediocre at best. The game ends once the game designers prevent you from going fast, which is always
I have spent money on all those franchises, but Sonic continues to be my favorite platformer. (I wouldn't group metroidvanias into the "platformer" category but whatever)
Also dude, your main complaint here is "it's so fast that you run into stuff", but that isn't the case if you just react fast enough. I don't want to be the "get good" guy, but come on.

And if you think the level design in the classics are terrible, it sounds to me like you don't get much out of exploration and platforming itself.
I won't defend Sonic 1 or the ending zones of Sonic 2, but S3&K and Sonic Mania are great examples of how Sonic level design can be fantastic.
Quote
They have poor pacing and almost no level design features that take advantage of sonic's mechanics
what in the world are you on about
Sonic's main mechanics in the classics are the rolling physics and moving smoothly along slopes. Once you're comfortable controlling Sonic, you can use your speed and the floor's curvature to fling yourself towards otherwise unreachable areas and be rewarded with an entirely new path through the level. This is what the games are about in the first place.

Sometimes, getting good paths is just left up to your platforming skill, but most of the best paths are achieved through clever use of the physics system.

You only get that kind of boring playthrough if you go into the game expecting it to be bad. You don't experiment, you don't explore, you just go and then act like it's the game's fault when you get all the worst paths.

EDIT: and for the record, I don't think there's any point in any of the classic games where the game gets you moving faster than the screen and then runs you into an object capable of hurting you.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 11:55:13 AM by /dev/sr0 »

I have spent money on all those franchises, but Sonic continues to be my favorite platformer. (I wouldn't group metroidvanias into the "platformer" category but whatever)
Also dude, your main complaint here is "it's so fast that you run into stuff", but that isn't the case if you just react fast enough. I don't want to be the "get good" guy, but come on.

And if you think the level design in the classics are terrible, it sounds to me like you don't get much out of exploration and platforming itself.
I won't defend Sonic 1 or the ending zones of Sonic 2, but S3&K and Sonic Mania are great examples of how Sonic level design can be fantastic.what in the world are you on about
Sonic's main mechanics in the classics are the rolling physics and moving smoothly along slopes. Once you're comfortable controlling Sonic, you can use your speed and the floor's curvature to fling yourself towards otherwise unreachable areas and be rewarded with an entirely new path through the level. This is what the games are about in the first place.

Sometimes, getting good paths is just left up to your platforming skill, but most of the best paths are achieved through clever use of the physics system.

You only get that kind of boring playthrough if you go into the game expecting it to be bad. You don't experiment, you don't explore, you just go and then act like it's the game's fault when you get all the worst paths.

EDIT: and for the record, I don't think there's any point in any of the classic games where the game gets you moving faster than the screen and then runs you into an object capable of hurting you.
1) reacting fast enough in sonic isn't sufficient. you literally have to trial and error the entire level at least 10 times before you can no-touch adequitely. 2d platformers naturally have a close-up view distance because giant screens don't really exist. so yeah, when you play a 2d sonic, you can only see 20 feet in front of you at any time, and when you're going at 60 miles per hour on any part of the level, you'll have like 2 frames to react to any obstacles that show up. that's just how the game goes, and i guess it really chalks up to limitations. however, i'm not giving it any points for that.

if you're driving a car in heavy fog where you can only see a couple feet ahead and you floor it, you shouldn't be surprised when you slam into a truck or a deer somewhere along the road, or crash around a bend and fly off a cliff to your death. it's not the car's fault for being so fast, and its not the fog's fault for existing- its the road designers for designing such a hazardous place to drive, adding random bends and obstructions into a fog-heavy place. similarly, the level designers of most sonics don't design the levels around the limitations of being able to see 20 feet ahead- they just design the level as if its a mario-esque platformer and expect the super-fast slidy sonic character to randomly slow down and take the time to platform at like 5 mph

2) sonic and knuckles is probably the most refined of the genesis sonics that exist, so i wont really go off on that, but even in the rare cases where the levels are designed cohesively with sonic's really fast running in mind, there's always bits where the pacing gets killed, usually when there's a platforming bit. in S&K you get cases where you'll go up a ramp and then immediately transition to some platforming, which is very good level design, but in most sonics, it'll be a fast run, followed by a wall of spikes and some platforms you have to jump onto, where already your momentum is going to forget up all pacing now that you have to stop.

3) the 'good paths' that you describe exist in all sonic games, but that's not sufficient enough. you can't have 'good gameplay' as a secret part of the level, that's just poor design. in almost all of the sonic games, the bits where going fast is discouraged (almost all of it) is what will leave a lasting impression. the little secrets like a loop jump that leads to a 1up are cool and good use of speed mechanic, but that's not really good level design holistically- its just bad design sprinkled with some good here and there

4) games that encourage you to experiment are good. sonic doesn't encourage you to experiment- it simply places one flying wasp robot in the middle of your straight 65mph run and expects you to have the knowledge or reaction to press down and slide through it. even once that happens, your ball form makes you completely lose control so you end up sliding into a trap further down. i'd expect sonic to give you more options than - lose your rings - jump over the enemy and miss a moving platform - duck and fall into a trap. your optimal choice is to slow the forget down and thoughtfully approach the enemy, striking it and then slowing down so you can jump onto the platform that takes you to the other side of a chasm of spikes. the game encourages you to slow down, because it punishes you for being fast. this is 90% of sonic games.

5) already 30 seconds into Sonic 1, you come to a set of pipes that you spin down as a ball, they're shaped as an S. you go through one, hit the checkpoint, go through the second one and keep moving and almost immediately, at the bottom of that loop, there is a spring that knocks you all the way back through the pipes to the beginning. that's just one example of many where the level design is so disconnected that the designers put something in that either kills you, stops your momentum or pushes you back

the spring doesn't hurt you, but it definitely disconnects you from any form of fast-paced gameplay when you make a breakneck reverse and lose 20 seconds off your timer
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:41:33 PM by PhantOS »

what the forget is going on here

Since PhantOS isn't black irl he needs to live out his fantasy of stealing money and running fast through video games.

what the forget is going on here
the game is bad for {x} reason with {x} evidence.