Author Topic: What Makes a Good (and Bad) Prison Escape? (Read 3890 times)

Shift Kitty · November 13, 2017, 03:33:56 AM

I think the biggest issue with the mode is that it's fundamentally a TDM. Except that one of the teams has to pretend that the other team doesn't want to win until they start trying.

I think it'd be much better if the 'Escape' part was already starting. The prison is already in a riot, the guards got the OK to take down any prisoner trying to escape. (which would be all of them, because it's a game, not a roleplay) Maybe have the prisoners already started with some random weapons, have a few dead guard props in the spawn area for the prisoners, and have the actual guards spawned elsewhere. As if this just started now.

Compare it to like. A zombie game. You're not playing through the initial infection process. You don't just play through a normal average life, not collecting weapons or emergency supplies even though you fully know that it's a zombie game and the spread is going to happen guaranteed.

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Rally · November 13, 2017, 04:19:06 AM

I've always dreamed of a Jail RP that was actually a Jail RP(G). Not some dumb simon says stuff but something within the realm of how an actual prison would operate. There'd be a big open map that you could roam within, with different facilities for the prisoners. Throughout the day you'd engage in tasks that normal prisoners are expected to engage in like showering, eating, and lockdown, but there would also be free time where you're free to play basketball on the yard, work out, or do a prison-job like laundry or something.

All these tasks would amount to some kind of character progression, jobs = xp, working out = strength buffs and stuff, going to the library = intelligence buffs and stuff. Higher level prisoners would have cooler clothes and access to stuff like shanks and other weapons. Stronger prisoners would be scaled up and have better damage resistance/endurance and stuff. More intelligent prisoners could like hack into stuff and craft better weapons.

You could have something similar for the guards, even if it is a little simpler. Tasering and apprehending criminals w/o killing them = more xp whereas just killing a guilty prisoner offers lesser rewards, and killing innocent prisoners gives major penalties. Higher level guards get cooler guns and armor and stuff, eventually going from regular lousy prison guard to a badass riot cop, that sorta stuff. Your progress would always be persistent too, so you could work on your guard and your prisoner character in parallel if you wanted

I don't feel like that's too far out of reach. Idk, probably preaching to the choir here

PowerDag · November 13, 2017, 04:27:49 AM

i'm so glad people agree that the glorified simon says PEs are garbage

Platypi · November 13, 2017, 07:31:12 AM

Quote from: Shift Kitty on November 13, 2017, 03:33:56 AM

I think it'd be much better if the 'Escape' part was already starting. The prison is already in a riot, the guards got the OK to take down any prisoner trying to escape. (which would be all of them, because it's a game, not a roleplay) Maybe have the prisoners already started with some random weapons, have a few dead guard props in the spawn area for the prisoners, and have the actual guards spawned elsewhere. As if this just started now.

Compare it to like. A zombie game. You're not playing through the initial infection process. You don't just play through a normal average life, not collecting weapons or emergency supplies even though you fully know that it's a zombie game and the spread is going to happen guaranteed.

I feel like making it a straight-up kill-on-sight TDM betrays the whole concept of a classic PE. What makes a classic PE different from any old TDM is that dynamic of the prisoners waiting for the perfect moment to strike and the guards trying to figure out who is up to what. The prison aspect is just a backdrop for this.

Platypi · November 13, 2017, 07:37:18 AM

Quote from: PowerDag on November 13, 2017, 04:27:49 AM

i'm so glad people agree that the glorified simon says PEs are garbage

It was fun for a few hours. But the novelty quickly wears off. It's pretty much just a prison-themed Simon Says. A proper PE should give prisoners more room to breath.

cromartini · November 13, 2017, 10:02:36 AM

Quote from: Platypi on November 13, 2017, 01:14:36 AM

What is BOSS? My mind goes to "Boss Battles", but that doesn't really sound like what you're describing.

BOSS was this MGS styled minigame in which you had the guards and spies/bosses. An really cool minigame from what i played it and i agree with phantos

Conan · November 13, 2017, 03:03:05 PM

Quote from: Platypi on November 13, 2017, 07:31:12 AM

I feel like making it a straight-up kill-on-sight TDM betrays the whole concept of a classic PE. What makes a classic PE different from any old TDM is that dynamic of the prisoners waiting for the perfect moment to strike and the guards trying to figure out who is up to what. The prison aspect is just a backdrop for this.

whats funny is this plus shift kitty�s post == ploads prison escape/my remake of it. though even that has issues, mainly the high dependence on map design for gameplay quality, and forced limitations on guards

Refticus · November 13, 2017, 03:54:11 PM

banning the whole reaction minigame wardens do to just shave off a few prisoners.
like god damn, people love doing that stuff even when there's so much cool stuff on the map

-Jetz- · November 13, 2017, 06:24:56 PM

As much as possible, its functionality should be built into scripts with specific rules. Relying on players to all follow the rules without anything objective to enforce them inevitably leads to disaster. And introducing a "Warden" who can order players around, in accordance with a dozen more human-error prone rules, is absurd. Ideally the game should be mostly functional without needing an admin to enforce basic gameplay features.

Drydess · November 13, 2017, 07:05:01 PM

imo the best thing about conans/ploads prison escape is that all the guards have to be set by the host. i think it'd be much cooler if this sort of thing worked with crowns as is but there just isn't enough active good people for what the gamemode calls for

PhantOS · November 13, 2017, 08:44:32 PM

I think that's the worst part of prison escape. The moment you introduce predictability into the mix, the less replay value the game has. This is why team randomization is essential

Also BOSS is that stealth game

PhantOS · November 13, 2017, 08:47:12 PM

Quote from: Rally on November 13, 2017, 04:19:06 AM

I've always dreamed of a Jail RP that was actually a Jail RP(G). Not some dumb simon says stuff but something within the realm of how an actual prison would operate. There'd be a big open map that you could roam within, with different facilities for the prisoners. Throughout the day you'd engage in tasks that normal prisoners are expected to engage in like showering, eating, and lockdown, but there would also be free time where you're free to play basketball on the yard, work out, or do a prison-job like laundry or something.

All these tasks would amount to some kind of character progression, jobs = xp, working out = strength buffs and stuff, going to the library = intelligence buffs and stuff. Higher level prisoners would have cooler clothes and access to stuff like shanks and other weapons. Stronger prisoners would be scaled up and have better damage resistance/endurance and stuff. More intelligent prisoners could like hack into stuff and craft better weapons.

You could have something similar for the guards, even if it is a little simpler. Tasering and apprehending criminals w/o killing them = more xp whereas just killing a guilty prisoner offers lesser rewards, and killing innocent prisoners gives major penalties. Higher level guards get cooler guns and armor and stuff, eventually going from regular lousy prison guard to a badass riot cop, that sorta stuff. Your progress would always be persistent too, so you could work on your guard and your prisoner character in parallel if you wanted

I don't feel like that's too far out of reach. Idk, probably preaching to the choir here

this wouldn't work unless someone went out and made like 6 engaging and unique minigames for the activities you describe. Otherwise it'd be some really dumb stuff like clicking on books and gaining intelligence xp- also known as senseless grinding

Platypi · November 14, 2017, 12:45:35 AM

Quote from: cromartini on November 13, 2017, 10:02:36 AM

BOSS was this MGS styled minigame in which you had the guards and spies/bosses. An really cool minigame from what i played it and i agree with phantos

Was this part of the game or a mod? I'm trying to find videos on it, but can only find MGS boss battles, or wikipages on "The Boss" character. (I am not familiar with the MGS franchises, if it doesn't go without saying.) A link to something would be helpful.

Quote from: -Jetz- on November 13, 2017, 06:24:56 PM

As much as possible, its functionality should be built into scripts with specific rules. Relying on players to all follow the rules without anything objective to enforce them inevitably leads to disaster. And introducing a "Warden" who can order players around, in accordance with a dozen more human-error prone rules, is absurd. Ideally the game should be mostly functional without needing an admin to enforce basic gameplay features.

Quote from: Drydess on November 13, 2017, 07:05:01 PM

imo the best thing about conans/ploads prison escape is that all the guards have to be set by the host. i think it'd be much cooler if this sort of thing worked with crowns as is but there just isn't enough active good people for what the gamemode calls for

In other words, low maintenance is a plus.

Quote from: PhantOS on November 13, 2017, 08:47:12 PM

this wouldn't work unless someone went out and made like 6 engaging and unique minigames for the activities you describe. Otherwise it'd be some really dumb stuff like clicking on books and gaining intelligence xp- also known as senseless grinding

I have to agree. It'd be hard to get something like this right. Well... it's hard to get any RPG right if we're going there. I do think adding intelligence buffs from clicking books in the library, or strength buffs from working out in the yard would be good concepts for a prison escape. Gaining intelligence would higher the likelihood of being able to hack the prison's security system or something. A strength buff could heighten your melee damage and slightly increase your speed. Players would have to consider the trade-off between time and buffs each round when planning their method of escaping. In a way, Tezuni actually implemented this concept. You may recall how there was a challenge for guards and a challenge for prisoners that would grant them increased speed for the remainder of the round. It didn't really fit with the atmosphere of the game. But it added another tactic to the game. I think this concept can and should be refined and implemented in the manner just discussed.

What are some other possible buffs (and ways to get them) you guys can think off?

Conan · November 14, 2017, 02:47:52 AM

BOSS is a gamemode and its available for dl in the gamemodes board

Platypi · November 14, 2017, 04:16:39 AM

Quote from: Conan on November 14, 2017, 02:47:52 AM

BOSS is a gamemode and its available for dl in the gamemodes board

Seeing the map again, I actually remember playing it now. Here's the link for anyone who's curious.