Police Shoot and Kill an Unarmed Daniel Shaver

[Snaked_Snake]

YOU DO NOT HAVE 2 SECONDS TO MAKE THESE JUDGEMENTS. How many times do I need to explain this?

He had 2 seconds to judge whether or not his arm was down, and clearly it was, since you said they can react within 0.5 seconds he should've know.

There was a specific reason why Han Solo had to shoot first but Lucas had to edit it to make it seem like Solo shot second to not make Solo seem like a ruthless killer.

In reality if Solo shot second he would have been killed.

Does any of this make sense now?

You're comparing a movie to real life? Ok.

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[King Tøny]

You're obviously not getting it. You do not have 2 loving seconds to judge.

You have to shoot before he reaches for the gun.

[Snaked_Snake]

You're obviously not getting it. You do not have 2 loving seconds to judge.

Neither are you really, I keep telling you what they did and how long they had to decide if they should do that, but then there's you clawing at every little piece of anything you can use to your advantage because you can't set up a real argument.

[mod-man]

he lied about being drunk, and reached for his pants wiht no indication kf why with guns drawn at him

two very big no nos

[EcstaticEggplant]

is that method of getting him to crawl police protocol? he literally told him to cross his legs and kneel over to him whilst his hands were high up. i can't even imagine how difficult that would be in a tense situation. also when he told him to fall on his face if he lost his balance.. does he not understand its human instinct to put your hands in front of you when falling? this just feels like the officer put him in a difficult situation, increasing the risk of him making mistakes.
he was flat on the floor with his hands on his head at one point. why couldnt one officer arrest him whilst the other had his gun on him? its not like hes gonna pull the trigger with his loving legs.

[Col. Burton]

Neither are you really, I keep telling you what they did and how long they had to decide if they should do that,

but the fallacy in your thinking is that they actually didn't have that long to decide, that's not how they are trained. An officer who gets called out to a scene where there's an armed intoxicated man reaching for his pants not once but twice, you are on edge. They thought he was reaching for a gun, not an itch on his ass.

reached for his pants wiht no indication kf why with guns drawn at him

after he was told to specifically not do that or he will be shot

[Snaked_Snake]

but the fallacy in your thinking is that they actually didn't have that long to decide, that's not how they are trained. An officer who gets called out to a scene where there's an armed intoxicated man reaching for his pants not once but twice, you are on edge. They thought he was reaching for a gun, not an itch on his ass.

after he was told to specifically not do that or he will be shot

If you watch the video at around 4:20 to 4:30 you can see that he reaches for his trousers, puts his hand down and after putting his hand back down, after that around 1-2 seconds later they shot him, they thought he was reaching for a gun but because they clearly weren't trained that well for this kind of situation they didn't realise he put his hand down.

Also the man who shot him also had "You're forgeted" marked on his gun, which is what got him fired.

[King Tøny]

Can someone with good video editing software please loving count each millisecond and determine if the officers had enough time to judge if he had a gun or not.

I know it's not exactly 2 loving seconds.

Don't forget to count bullet trajectory because maybe they fired as soon as he reached but the bullet didn't travel yet so it gives off the illusion they shot after he put his hand down.

[Snaked_Snake]

Can someone with good video editing software please loving count each millisecond and determine if the officers had enough time to judge if he had a gun or not.

I know it's not exactly 2 loving seconds.

And I never said it was exactly 2 seconds, I said nearly 2 seconds, and you clearly said they can react within 0.5 seconds, and if that's so, he definitely had enough time to react to the fact he put his arm down.

[Conan]

snaked do you legitimately believe the victim did nothing wrong cause it seems like you're trying your damndest to pin everything on the officer and not on the dumb drunk guy

like yes, it could have been handled differently. but mishandling a situation is not murder, and excepting the mass shouting of commands and constant threat of death the police didnt really do anything that far out of line with what they're supposed to do.

[King Tøny]

And I never said it was exactly 2 seconds, I said nearly 2 seconds, and you clearly said they can react within 0.5 seconds, and if that's so, he definitely had enough time to react to the fact he put his arm down.

You're not getting it at all and I don't want to continue explaining it.


Both sides are facing a potential life or death situation.


The police are facing a potentially armed suspect who may have hidden weapons in his waistband.


The alleged armed suspect is facing multiple armed police officers that are telling him NOT TO PUT HIS HANDS TO HIS SIDE


Clearly people can loving die in about 2 seconds or less as proof with this video and that police cannot afford to properly judge if he wants to scratch his ass or not.

[Snaked_Snake]

snaked do you legitimately believe the victim did nothing wrong cause it seems like you're trying your damndest to pin everything on the officer and not on the dumb drunk guy

like yes, it could have been handled differently. but mishandling a situation is not murder, and excepting the mass shouting of commands and constant threat of death the police didnt really do anything that far out of line with what they're supposed to do.

The victim did so some wrong things but mostly it was the police officer.

They were making him do stupid stuff and threatening to kill him if he doesn't do it, they're meant to so it's fine.

The man put his arm down, but apparently because they're meant to "defend" themselves they shoot.

And tony, you say they can react within 0.5 seconds, yet you say "in 2 seconds you can die!" but that's only if there's something that can kill you, the man's arm was down, I highly doubt that he could've had a gun in his hand and if he did it would be a loving peashooter.

[King Tøny]

The police however did forget something up.

The police said for him to keep his hands up and if he were to fall that he must fall on his face.


The human body instinctively forces your hands in a specific position to avoid damage to yourself so if he were to fall and the police shot him then I would agree that it would be total loving murder and their actions would be unjustified.


However pulling your pants up because they are slipping is not an instinctive reaction. It's a controlled reaction that he shouldn't have done.

[Snaked_Snake]

As you keep saying, he was in a life or death situation, you can't completely think properly when in such a situation, and don't say that the police were in one because the man was clearly at a disadvantage and if you're afraid of 1 man who might have a gun when you have a rifle, training and a few other officers then really you shouldn't be there in the first place.

[King Tøny]

if he did it would be a loving peashooter.

if you're afraid of 1 man who might have a gun when you have a rifle

Now who's giving who strawmans.

It doesn't loving matter how big the gun was or if the officers had bigger guns.

Even a loving .22 caliber bullet is enough to kill someone.