Author Topic: [BREAKING NEWS] Multiple Injuries reported after school shooting in California  (Read 7037 times)

isnt it kinda disingenuous though that buying guns for self-defense/safety actually increases the odds of you/your family dying by 2x (1:1.9)?
I would say no because if you are buying a gun for protection and you are serious about safety you are extremely unlikely to die in an accidental firearm death. The truth is most people do not buy guns for protection or hunting, they buy them because they want to take Facebook selfies with cool guns they saw in video games, and these people have a tenancy to not be as safe with their firearms.

If you drive a 30 year old car 50 mph over the limit and refuse to wear a seat-belt, you still contribute to vehicle fatality statistics when you die inside of it. There are a lot of factors about gun ownership that are completely within your control and minimize your risk of accidental death or injury. To be honest, the chance of you accidentally killing yourself or your family is reduced to negligible if you take some incredibly basic precautions. You can accomplish this by:
- Locking up your guns when you are not using them
- Adhering to the very first rule they teach you in firearm safety

firearms should be treated more like vehicles. instructional testing, field testing, and of course background checks. most people who own firearms already know the five rules by heart. laws restricting what we can do with firearms don't help prevent murders, though they might help prevent less murders from taking place in a shooting scenario.

if you want proper legislation for your firearm, write your congressmen. this shouldn't be such a tough thought process. the more people are educated about the dangers of firearms, the more likely we can see events like this settle down.

also ignore deus ex he's a bad faith handicap.

Being in a car statistically increases your chance of running over someone, blowing up due to faulty modification, running into someone, or being in a high speed chase. Let's ban cars, they're obviously causing the issue.
yes, but the difference is using a car is a decision made to increase convenience at the risk of that. ie, its a risk not contradictory to the reason you use it. buying a gun for safety while also increasing your statistical likelihood of death is directly contradictory to the purpose of buying a gun for safety.

i dont support an outright ban on guns, please dont bring that into the scope of discussion. i was just pointing out this contradiction.

You can't legislate against stupidity
yes, but that doesnt mean all legislation on gun restrictions/ownership requirements are ineffective - ie a law punishing an owner that doesnt take a minimum amount of measures to prevent their kid from taking their gun. you can't stop people from being stupid, but you can definitely encourage people to not be via threat of punishment.

-snip-
fair enough. there's a point here to be made that the requirements to buy a firearm should be higher, to reduce the case of a casual buyer who doesnt take the risk of owning a gun seriously. but anything making it harder to buy guns seems to be strongly opposed by conservatives on a basis of belief/fear rather than reason.

I would say no because if you are buying a gun for protection and you are serious about safety you are extremely unlikely to die in an accidental firearm death.
but it's not just accidents, is the issue. during a home invasion, pulling a gun raises the stakes (for the intruder) from "I'm going to jail" to "I'm going to die". their goal is not to kill you, it's just to sell your stuff. then you bring mortality into it and get murked by someone who's done this stuff a lot more than you have

I disagree, I think it's impossible to determine how a home invader is going to react. Most home invasions occur when nobody is home, so chances are if you get caught inside your home by a home invader you've already surprised them and sent them into a reaction. I would argue that many home invaders are going to be high on drugs, in multiple numbers, armed, and already fully aware that what they're doing is dangerous. Furthermore I would argue home invaders specifically avoid homes they know have guns in them, there are definitely ways for a criminal to get this information and we know it's been done before and used in this way.

This is also why training with your firearm is so important. I know not to go searching for an interloper in my house if someone breaks in, though it's easy for me to imagine why someone would under a false pretense of bravado with a gun. If you hear a bump in the night and immediately go charging through your house with your shotgun screaming death threats you are going to be ambushed and killed. If you are sitting behind a locked door using your mattress as cover holding an angle, I can't imagine I've raised my chances of death. Or for that matter being raped.

There is a fixation on home-invasions in the gun community, I do not think they are as big of a contributor as people believe. I'd be far more worried about my roommate murdering me with my own handgun than I would a home-invader killing me in a failed home defense. I think that's more likely and probably far more common, just plain straight up unpremeditated firearm homicide resulting from being close to guns. Difficult to account for something like that. I used to lock away my guns so nobody had quick access to them when I or someone else was under the influence of alcohol, and my routine would prevent someone else from using my firearms against me, but there is ultimately nothing stopping me from murdering someone.

Then again, living in a house with a sword makes you more likely to be killed with a sword, I think that's just the nature of the beast when it comes to lethal self-defense. I can tell you I did not feel any safer when I was unarmed in a high-risk area than when I was armed. I think everyone's situation is different and everyone who wants to own a gun for their own protection needs to evaluate these factors for themselves. In any case, I categorically disagree with the concept of a government telling me how much I need to be worried about my own personal protection.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 09:54:59 PM by Robot »

Also I think Self Delete is probably the largest factor here assuming it's contributing, being that it's far more likely to kill you than the previously mentioned forms of homicide. Since Self Delete is ultimately a personal choice that transcends any amount of safety knowledge and training I don't think I really have the grounds to lecture anyone about it in this context, but if it contributes to the statistic it ought to be mentioned.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 10:51:26 PM by Robot »

The truth is most people do not buy guns for protection or hunting, they buy them because they want to take Facebook selfies with cool guns they saw in video games,

Please say sike