Author Topic: Religion Battleground: Rant and Rave here.  (Read 6778 times)

I think the Universe is hard to understand because we live very short lives with a definite beginning and end. Every event around us has a beginning and end therefore we assume the Universe has a beginning and an end. From this many believe there must be  a god for how could something be created from nothing?

Obviously the flaw here is that what created god? what was before god?

A more logical presumption is that the universe has always existed and simply goes through a cycle. The cycle being the expansion and then compression of the Universe. Right now we are experiencing the expansion stage of the cycle as the galaxies are getting further and further apart. I imagine they will slow down until they come to a stop and start to come together once again forming a highly dense center. After that another big bang would occur.

The hardest part is considering that the universe has always existed. It had no beginning, only a rebirth (the big bang) and in many trillions of years it may very well have another big bang. This not only removes the illogical assumption that everything was created by a being and also serves to explain why the universe is radiating outward from a central point (an action which suggests the beginning of the Universe).

If you are to believe in your own religion, whatever it may be, at least look back on history and ask yourself if you are repeating the mistakes of the past.

Remember the ancient Greeks? they believed in many, many gods. Almost a god for every possible part of daily life you can image. Poseidon of the sea, Athena of war, and Zeus, the king. Right now almost none would believe such a tale given what we now know and yet do we act much in the same way they did? The Greeks believed in it as much as many do today, they had books on it, schools devoted to it, they worshiped and practiced. And yet we still think their beliefs are wrong or misguided. A double standard?

I can understand why someone would want to believe in a god. Fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of weakness. We want there to be some defining characteristic or rule on "good and evil". We want to believe in Justice and fairness. But ultimately we must accept that all of these things are merely creations of man to satiate itself and quell dissent. Civilization itself is built upon the principles ingrained in the religious texts.

As I said before; the stronger man is the one that can face the world without a god, than the one that lives their lives in fear of a god.


I think the Universe is hard to understand because we live very short lives with a definite beginning and end. Every event around us has a beginning and end therefore we assume the Universe has a beginning and an end. From this many believe there must be  a god for how could something be created from nothing?

Obviously the flaw here is that what created god? what was before god?

A more logical presumption is that the universe has always existed and simply goes through a cycle. The cycle being the expansion and then compression of the Universe. Right now we are experiencing the expansion stage of the cycle as the galaxies are getting further and further apart. I imagine they will slow down until they come to a stop and start to come together once again forming a highly dense center. After that another big bang would occur.

The hardest part is considering that the universe has always existed. It had no beginning, only a rebirth (the big bang) and in many trillions of years it may very well have another big bang. This not only removes the illogical assumption that everything was created by a being and also serves to explain why the universe is radiating outward from a central point (an action which suggests the beginning of the Universe).

If you are to believe in your own religion, whatever it may be, at least look back on history and ask yourself if you are repeating the mistakes of the past.

Remember the ancient Greeks? they believed in many, many gods. Almost a god for every possible part of daily life you can image. Poseidon of the sea, Athena of war, and Zeus, the king. Right now almost none would believe such a tale given what we now know and yet do we act much in the same way they did? The Greeks believed in it as much as many do today, they had books on it, schools devoted to it, they worshiped and practiced. And yet we still think their beliefs are wrong or misguided. A double standard?

I can understand why someone would want to believe in a god. Fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of weakness. We want there to be some defining characteristic or rule on "good and evil". We want to believe in Justice and fairness. But ultimately we must accept that all of these things are merely creations of man to satiate itself and quell dissent. Civilization itself is built upon the principles ingrained in the religious texts.

As I said before; the stronger man is the one that can face the world without a god, than the one that lives their lives in fear of a god.

I highly agree with you.
Also a question to Christians, why doesn't god give evidence that he exists.

All of you are wrong;





Isn't that like spagghettitonius or something?

Snip
You've pretty much covered it all, but at the same time, there's much more to be covered.

Those who are told to prove the fact that a God, or Gods exist, should not have to.  This is due to the fact that there isn't ANY proof supporting God's existance.  There's a book, that religion's listen to because the book tells them too.  It's a paradox, No, religion IS a paradox.

The proof that no religion possesses is the proof that anyone, trying to disprove religion, withholds.  And no, the religious side cannot say the same thing torwards the anti-religious side, this is because the religious side is the the proving side, and the anti-religious side is the disproving side.  This will explain it:
Quote from: Lalam24
   “The proof you don’t have, is the proof I have” this statement, does not in any formats contradict itself. There are never two proving sides two one concept, and if there are, one side cannot say this statement, due to it not making any sense what so ever, if there are two proving sides to one concept, they both must be proving the same thing, and that is why, using this statement wouldn’t offer any proof in any way. But in the case that there is a proving side, and a disproving side to that proving side, this statement is valid. Saying, “Where is your disproof to this not existing?” This is the exact same thing as saying, “Where is your proof to it not existing?” The first quote is the simplest format, thus it must be used within the argument. Same goes for this following, “Where is your proof of it existing?” And the second quote “Where is your disproof to it not existing” the first quote is it’s simplest format, and that is why it must be used. Since that has been cleared up, I can get to the general point of this document; without proof from the proving side, the disproving side may not offer any disproof, because there is no proof to base the disproof off of. The proving side does not need to base their proof off of disproof, because the proof needs to come from the source of which they’re trying to prove, not the disproving side.
This is only a SMALL step in disproving God's existance.  But sadly, it will never happen.  That is, unless, our creator (if any) shows itself, thus disproving a God.  But that seems to be the only logical solution that we're able to comprehend.  And a God can not be completely proven, until it shows itself.  Old documents stating that god existed is not proof, a coinincidence, such as a body part being shaped into a cross, is not proof.  Religion constantly tries to find the littles bit of evidence, just to get itself further, when all it seems to be doing, is showing the idiocy within religion.

What's happened in the past will never be proven, it is physically impossible.  One can obtain all of the evidence they want, but they still can not prove that an event before the present time has ever existed.

If our lives just ended all of a sudden the impossibble would happen, we wouldnt think, we wouldnt do anything, we wouldnt exist. I think its impossible to not have a god but impossible to have one. If you think about it, everything is impossible, but by being impossible it is possible.

This post reminds me of this time i asked my science teacher if scientists ever think about God as a possible factor in the creation of Earth and he just gave me this irritated stare and didn't answer my question.

If our lives just ended all of a sudden the impossibble would happen, we wouldnt think, we wouldnt do anything, we wouldnt exist. I think its impossible to not have a god but impossible to have one. If you think about it, everything is impossible, but by being impossible it is possible.
The impossible doesn't happen when you die.  Your brain shuts down; thinking isn't some magical power that can't dissapear.  It's just like a computer; if it shuts down, it doesn't do anything.  It doesn't access information, nothing.  But the thought of not thinking is impossible, because it's incomprehendable for our puny little minds, in fact, it's not comprehendable for ANY mind.  That is, of course, as far as we know.

Take for example, a brick, it doesn't think, so would that make it impossible?  No, it wouldn't, but I see where it's hard to think about that.  Because, once again, we can't comprehend it.

And no, not everything is impossible.  I don't see where you see that at all, and it's quite obvious that most things are possible.

Don't try to question God if you haven't even read the bible. Also, I am christian, but I despise the people that think think you have to try to be perfect or you go to hell. It's the religious extremists that make Christianity or any other religion for that matter to be disliked.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 12:35:42 AM by jungemann »

Maybe its the extremists who are getting more attention because they run your religion? But who would dare question them, doing that would be blasphemous!

If our lives just ended all of a sudden the impossibble would happen, we wouldnt think, we wouldnt do anything, we wouldnt exist. I think its impossible to not have a god but impossible to have one. If you think about it, everything is impossible, but by being impossible it is possible.
Nice attempt at being deep, but no. You contradict yourself many times over. An 8 year old's paradox doesn't translate very well into a well thought out point of view.

Hard facts and rational explanations are hard to disprove. When you challenge that you basically throw out logical rational thinking.

Also,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism


When everyone dies, don't they stop believing in whatever, considering their brain is dead aswell?

Welp from what I can tell people usually spout:

Quote
You are all wrong because the people that raised me told me that you are all wrong! The people at Church tell me you are all wrong!

But then you say they are being too close minded and they say:

Quote
That's the other people! Not us! You are a liar!

Hmm, once you scratch the surface you encounter circular logic in the form of people not knowing crap about their religion, and then telling other idiots about it.

War over religion is like going to war over who has the better imaginary friend.

Also, I am christian, but I despise the people that think think you have to try to be perfect or you go to hell.
My standards for a ticket to hell are Murder and Rape. Exception of Mercy-Killing and Self-Defense.

A couple of things:

1.
As for the Bible: Literature, it's good, but I don't read it because the millions worship it and believe everything in it, as if it's all 100% true. At this rate, why not worship Lord of the Rings and claim its stories are true? It makes no sense.

Both Lord of the Rings and The Chronicals of Narnia were both based on the Bible. If you would read some of the Bible before you start ranting you could figure some of this stuff out. And both J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are Christians.

Also, Christians don't "worship" the Bible, we worship what God has to say meaning the context of the Bible.

-snip-

One question for your Big Bang theory, How does the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics fit in?

What's happened in the past will never be proven, it is physically impossible.  One can obtain all of the evidence they want, but they still can not prove that an event before the present time has ever existed.

Yet you agree with Reactor on his theory of the Big Bang. Are you calling his idea false and you agreeing with it? Kinda ironic, don't you think?

Don't try to question God if you haven't even read the bible. Also, I am christian, but I despise the people that think think you have to try to be perfect or you go to hell. It's the religious extremists that make Christianity or any other religion for that matter to be disliked.

Like you said, people who think you have to be perfect are wrong. Noone's perfect. It's by God's love that he allows us to go to Heaven, all he asks in return is that we accept him as our Lord and Savior, and believe he died on the cross and rose again. That's it. Now it's your choice if you want to believe it or not. If you accept him, you can do anything you want. Rape, murder, whatever. As long as you believe what I said, you'll never go to Hell. But if you do those things, not only will the world will punish you, God will punish you. But if you ask for his forgiveness, he will grant it.

Now, I'm not the best at explaining things, so don't go quoting me exactly what I said.