Iban's Mean IRC

[Only1rebel]

Ahhhhh religion wars. heres the rundown fellas

1. Universe was created by an explosion of energy and matter rubbing together causing more energy. This mass and energy was all in 10 dimensions thus preventing us to explain it to its fullest extent. What caused the explosion, who knows.

2. After the explosion 4 dimensions ripped off into the universe we see today, the rest are flying around in black holes and stuff.

3. The 4 dimensions we know are, height, length, width, and time.

4. Because we have the access to knowledge and have the nature to want to know every loving thing. (don't believe me? why do we have news stations? why do we slow down when we see a car accident? face it we want in everyone elses business). This is caused by our brain having the function to intake information. When contronted with a question with no answer (Creation) we are left to create our own answers so we can be content (Religion).

5. It has also been proven that most of religion is just stories about the stars, such as Jesus' birth on the 25th of December is just a fantasy story about the winter solstice and the Sun starting to head back across the equator thus showing warmer days and crops and "eternal life" etc. I can keep going. Easter is the recreation of light when the days are in daylight longer than nighttime.

6. So after all religion is just a created answer to explain one of the many questions we have no answers to, and anyone who trys and forces a religion on someone is stupid and im sure does not represent there actual religion correctly.

There we go. Reality - 1, Fantasy - 0.

[Ad Bot]

[Lalam24]

-snip-

Regardless of the fact that I'm against religion, I still think it's ridiculous for people to state that what they believe is true, no matter loving what.  Yes, science has the backup, but it's still all theory; it's physically impossible to prove any event that has happened before the current time.

Here's a better way to put it: would you rather believe in a concept based purely off of fairy tale, or reality?  And if they're stupid enough, they'll choose the first one.  But hey, if they're that ignorant, they deserve to believe such nonsense.

[[GSF]Ghost]

Ahhhhh religion wars. heres the rundown fellas
...

There is no religious war. And if all that is true then what is the purpose of meaning, existence, suffering, cohesive intelligence, the universe, etc.? Is Reality objective or subjective? What happens after we die? What happened before you were born - did you exist? What is real? Christianity answers all of this, and has substantial evidence to prove it's authenticity. An example is Jesus' birth. Mary gave birth to Jesus without being married, and at that time with current beliefs and morals, any woman who wasn't married and had a child would have been stoned to death. It is a miracle that she wasn't, something happened to prevent it. Also, whether Jesus existed or not, SOMETHING happened 2000 years ago that had a major impact on the world since.

"It has also been proven that most of religion is just stories about the stars, such as Jesus' birth on the 25th of December is just a fantasy story"
Most of religion yes, Christianity has not been proven as just stories; there are no facts to disprove it, it has only been challenged logically. And holidays are of pagan origin, we shouldn't wait until December 25th to celebrate Jesus birth, we should celebrate it everyday. Something else that is interesting, 1/3 of all medical cures have been label as "miraculous recoveries" because the patients somehow recovered, defying all logic. Also, how many testimonies do you hear about people having life-after-death experiences and don't speak of God or Jesus?

"This is caused by our brain having the function to intake information. When contronted with a question with no answer (Creation) we are left to create our own answers so we can be content (Religion). "
Our brain is programmed to search for truth, thus we must challenge everything. Do you challenge that statement you made? Christianity being a mere belief created to understand everything is false, understand it's origin. Science is what you should be referring to.

Creation can be debated, but right now that's not important. Life was great once, Adam and Eve were created. God had to challenge their love, they were tempted, they failed. Life became a nightmare. We have disease, pain, suffering, etc. to remind us why we are here. We are born sinful and we desire evil. There is no way we can reach God by ourselves, so he sent His son as a mediator. So the purpose of reality is to learn for ourselves why we are here, and how to rise above it to find salvation. God also gave us laws to follow, too many to name here. Lets use marriage as an example: marriage is a method used by God so that two people of the opposite gender can unite through love and help each other follow Jesus. It all makes sense.

Even though everything can be proven objectively, that just supports the existence of God. I'm amazed more scientists don't believe in God even after studying the complexity of DNA.

Here's a better way to put it: would you rather believe in a concept based purely off of fairy tale, or reality?  And if they're stupid enough, they'll choose the first one.  But hey, if they're that ignorant, they deserve to believe such nonsense.

For what logical reason are you against religion? Truth is only true if it is cohesive; stating that we exist here by accident and then die without an afterlife means that life is meaningless, but doesn't everything have meaning? Thus reality too?
And I hope you aren't labeling Christianity as a fairytale, research Biblical authenticity if you are.

If your reasoning for being in this thread relies solely on pointing out people's failings in logic, then you really haven't been on the forums for too long...

That doesn't make sense, I could easily have been on the forums since the release of Blockland and still point out fallacies. I know how rampant fallacies are, but when you challenge Christianity, having only biases as your backing, I'm going to unravel your argument. This is a mature subject, and thus your arguments must be likewise.

[Lalam24]

For what logical reason are you against religion? Truth is only true if it is cohesive; stating that we exist here by accident and then die without an afterlife means that life is meaningless, but doesn't everything have meaning? Thus reality too?
And I hope you aren't labeling Christianity as a fairytale, research Biblical authenticity if you are.

By reality, I mean what we're able to prove.  The basics of the religion still haven't been proven (God, prophet, etc).
Welp, if there's even one thing in the bible that's true, then I guess it's one hell of a paradox.  So many things in that bloody book have been disproven, and since there are things that must be true proven based off of what you're telling me, then hell, it contradicts itself like a motherforgeter.

[Digmaster]

[GSF]Ghost, lay off Lalam, he's bringing up his own opinion. Don't immediately discredit him, because his opinion just happens to be not yours, listen to him, and you might change your opinion.

Besides, Lalam brings up very good points if you listen to him. He made wonder about things I've never wondered about. made me wonder if this whole god thing is true.

[Only1rebel]

There is no religious war. And if all that is true then what is the purpose of meaning, existence, suffering, cohesive intelligence, the universe, etc.? Is Reality objective or subjective? What happens after we die? What happened before you were born - did you exist? What is real?

That was the cliffnotes of what I believe. All those above questions are questions the christian religion created because people wanted answers. WHEN THERE ARE NO ANSWERS TO THEM BESIDES WHAT WE MAKE UP! If you had skype I would talk to you instead of having to type all my proofs. Basically, I used to be a christian.. Hardcore.. now I realized that over the years that I got nothing out of it, god never proved himself to me. Don't say "Well you obviously were not a true christian." I had a relationship with jesus, it wans't about works, it was about helping the helpless (which I still do) but I realized what I felt.. what people said was God, was actually emotions I created within myself. Face it, we are primitive creatures trying to explain the unexplainable, all the things we call "God moments" are self created. I know this for a fact.

Lalam I agree with you totally, I don't think what I am saying is truth. I think that mine is more logical, I am agnostic. I don't know what happened, but all I know is that religion sounds farfetched and made up by a 4 dimensional minded human. I don't care what people believe and I think most athiests are a religion themselves because they try and force there beliefs on christians. Where I start up is when people start forcing their beliefs on you.

[Digmaster]

Only, you just said exactly what I think.

[LoserHero]

With evidence there is no need for faith.

[Only1rebel]

Only, you just said exactly what I think.

There is a lot more to what I believe at this time. But I cannot type it all in here, otherwise I would bore you guys more than I already have haha.

I agree Loser, but sometimes evidence is not there. So we revert on our own made up faith just because we want confidence in an answer.

[Digmaster]

With evidence there is no need for faith.

And I dislike blind faith. Thus, I go back until I find a place with significant evidence to support it, thus no faith is necessary.

[LoserHero]

Wellp, religion is a test of faith if you really think about it.
You can choose to believe, or not to believe.
Whether you do or not doesn't make you a bad person and neither should either ridicule the other for their belief.
(even though people do,  because that's what people do.)

[[GSF]Ghost]

[GSF]Ghost, lay off Lalam, he's bringing up his own opinion.

I'm not attacking him I'm just trying to see what his views are.

Basically, I used to be a christian.. Hardcore.. now I realized that over the years that I got nothing out of it, god never proved himself to me. Don't say "Well you obviously were not a true christian." I had a relationship with jesus, it wans't about works, it was about helping the helpless (which I still do) but I realized what I felt.. what people said was God, was actually emotions I created within myself. Face it, we are primitive creatures trying to explain the unexplainable, all the things we call "God moments" are self created. I know this for a fact.

I know what it's like, I've been through it. I didn't become faithful like I am now overnight, I came close to going crazy from the stress I went through in high school. The only thing I could find hope in was the beliefs I was raised with. And, after taking them more seriously my life changed, opportunities became plentiful, and changes started to occur in my life. This is why I became more of a Christian. However, I was bombarded with increasingly worse situations in which my beliefs were challenged, but even though it didn't make sense I still held on to them. And then I noticed more changes in my life. And one day when I was praying for answers I felt the spirit.

Then I realized something, when we are in pain or are suffering, that is when we can feel the presence of the Holy Spirit because we have to rely on the Lord. If we are enjoying life, then what do we need Jesus for? Why should we feel his presence? You were a true Christian, but remember we must be tested just as Adam and Eve. We will go through situations in which our beliefs will feel completely meaningless and worthless, but it's for a purpose.

What really upsets me today is when people who convert are immediately told "YOUR SAVED, GO FOLLOW JESUS!" We are not saved until we pass through those gates, this is a huge farce. Authenticity of Christianity is not based on feeling the presence of the Holy Spirit, it is noticing changes in our life based upon what we believe. I'm sorry that you experienced that, but I hope what I said helps. I am a living example that Christianity changes you for the best if you let it. And not all our prayers are answered the way we want, but they are answered. I learned this the hard way.

[Only1rebel]

So a God who lives in the sky somewhere who does not show himself to us until we trust him for 20 years and go through hard times. And if you don't love him blindly, he sends you to hell? That isn't the kind of God I want to worship. Yeah sure the loving God sounds to goo to be true, because it is.

I know what it's like, I've been through it. I didn't become faithful like I am now overnight, I came close to going crazy from the stress I went through in high school.

iBan says your an Emo Kid. Lol

[Digmaster]

So a God who lives in the sky somewhere who does not show himself to us until we trust him for 20 years and go through hard times. And if you don't love him blindly, he sends you to hell? That isn't the kind of God I want to worship. Yeah sure the loving God sounds to goo to be true, because it is.

You make god sound like a richard :D

[[GSF]Ghost]

So a God who lives in the sky somewhere who does not show himself to us until we trust him for 20 years and go through hard times. And if you don't love him blindly, he sends you to hell? That isn't the kind of God I want to worship. Yeah sure the loving God sounds to goo to be true, because it is.

iBan says your an Emo Kid. Lol

lol, if I'm Emo for having stress in high school then everyone would be Emo.

That's not it at all. God is not seperate from us, he is with us always; I think of him as energy in all physical matter, just as a way to comprehend his existence. But, we have to prove that we can trust Him, because we are born sinful, and sin is seperation from Him. And he doesn't send us to Hell, Hell is just seperation from God that we choose to go to if we choose sin over Him. He loves us so much that he sent us the Bible and his Son to help us (I'm sure that if Adam and Eve didn't give into temptation God wouldn't have interviened to the extent that he did). I'm not saying love blindly, I'm saying develop a solid foundation for your faith based on logic, but then God will test you to see how well your faith fares. If you prove your are faithful, then think of it as like a "spiritual promotion."