I'm just going to step aside from this current conversation to adress a post that seems to have been ignored.Ah, your ignorance fuels my anger.
*cracks fingers* Fuels my anger too, hypocrite.
You couldn't be more wrong, my not-so-good sir. Famous last words.
First off, you have just assumed that all Christians are fundamentalist. I scoff at your stupidity. But I can only explain what I mean this way:
You see, there are different sects of Christianity, then there are different levels of understanding. There are:
- Fundamentalists - These people view the bible as the one and only truth. They are the ones that get on our nerves and spout God everyday of their lives. They are the ones that think that if you don’t believe in God, you go straight to Hell, which, to them, is a place. To them, the bible is science and if it said Jesus wiped his nose, that's what happened. Essentially true.
- Conservative - These people are bit more laid back, though not much. They look at the Bible as the truth with more meaning behind it. They know that the Bible was written by early man, and it could be misinterpreted, but they also view it as the truth. They also think that you are more likely going to Hell if you don’t believe in God, but they think you have a chance if you sort-of do but are unsure. You are bringing political alignments into a discussion of religion. While there is definitely a correlation (Republican = more fundamentalist, more ignorant), this is a debate for another time.
- Mainstream (me) - These people don't look at the as the truth or a lie. We just look at the meaning behind it. For example, if the Bible said that Jesus wiped his ass, we don't care if he did or not. I believe that Hell is not a place, but rather a state. It is something that we go through, not literally, but mentally. We are lost, confused, lonely, sad, hatful, and all that bad stuff. We just know that we are to keep good hygiene.
- Liberal - Now, I view these people as a bit hypocritical. They view the Bible as a lie, but at the same time they look at the meaning behind it as the truth. These people look at everyday facts more than trust in God. For example, if the Bible said that Jesus blew his nose, a Liberal would say that he didn't do that but we should keep good hygiene. More political characterizations, and these people are the most intelligent out of all you have listed. Even though they believe in the preposterous notion of the Judeochristian deity, they see that there are moral guidelines for the benefit of humanity behind the words of this demonic book you hold so dear.
- Atheist - I don't need to explain this area of belief...Remember those famous last words? Atheism, quite literally, means the lack of belief. You just stated that atheism is an area of belief, and I scoff at your stupidity, ignorance, wishful thinking of moderate Christianity, and all the other crap you just posted.
And remember, none of the people in these areas are stupid. Some can be, but I've talked to a lot of people in each of these areas and they know their stuff.
No, they don't. Neither do you.
How can I disprove the God you believe in? (not all deities, just the specific omnipotent one that spread the most foul stuff on our species)
Quite simple.
I ask you the question: Is your God infinite?
There are two answers that you can give me that are definite: yes and no.
If you say yes, then we proceed to the next step. If you say no, then you have just undermined your core beliefs. If the core creator is not infinite, it must have been created. Therefore it is not the creator.
If you answered yes, you have also disproved your God's existence. Infinity is something unachievable in the finite universe we exist in. Now, of course you are going to run off to google and say "OH LOOK AT ALL OF THESE THINGS OF INFINITE THIS AND THAT" without understanding that they are not literally infinite, but practically so. Take the gravitational pull of a black hole. People say it has infinite gravity, but it does not. It is just so massive that particles moving at the speed of light (something that can not be achieved by anything with mass, due to special relativity, because this speed would require an infinite amount of energy, and infinities are not possible) can not escape. Without mass, anything can move at the speed of light (but not faster) because Newton's second law and its applications.
But I digress, and so now I will refer to the rebuttals I expect you will provide.
1. God exists in spiritual form, therefore is immaterial and supernatural.
If something is immaterial, it does not exist. There is no way that anything supernatural exists, by definition. Supernatural means it is above nature, and anything above nature is not nature and therefore does not exist within nature. To say that there is a spiritual form of a superior being is pure speculation. It can not be documented, it can not be observed, it can not be tested. Therefore it is not science. If something can not be shown to exist by the scientific method, it simply does not exist in our reality.
2. God exists outside of our universe, and so does not need to follow its laws.
There is no existing outside of the universe, because the universe is existence. If you say that God dwells in a parallel universe, there are laws there that must be followed, albeit different from this universe's. If something exists, it can not be above the rules of existence.
There is also the 'free will' argument that you people tend to love.
You say that evil exists because God granted humanity the ability of free will.
There are more flaws in this statement than in the assumption that a theory is not true.
God is omni-everything, as I like to put it. He can predict anything, cause anything, stop anything, create anything, do anything. The Universe and its laws are his plaything and construction set (unfortunately not possible, but I'll play along). If he really is omniscient, he will have predicted the existence of evil long before first sin. If he really is omnipotent, he would have had the power to stop it. If he really was Wholly Good, as the Bible says, he would have stopped it. But, evil exists, and therefore God does not.
Furthermore, let's take a look the original sin concept (harmful to humanity, because it makes us believe that we were once higher than we are currently and fell due to unnatural immorality (what an oxymoron), and this assumption makes us be less tolerant of what life is and what suffering is. Good and evil isn't so black and white). God, with his perfection, creates a perfect creation with free will. Of course, this free will must include the naive ability to be exploited to break orders that are not explained properly. If God created everything, then God would have created the root of all evil, namely Satan. If God created Satan, he created the exploiter and humans with the ability to be exploited. Therefore, he caused the fall from Eden, and he is to blame for original sin.
There is also the question as to why a God would torture his own creations because they made decisions he allowed them to make, rather than simply destroying them for being faulty (creations of perfection shouldn't have faults...) This makes me see God as a sadist, the root of all evil, a poor designer, and possibly every other negative attribute you can assign to anything.
I'd rather burn in hell than worship this sack of stuff of a man in the clouds. [/list]
