Kids and politics

[Snackbar]

Morals are bullstuff from religion. Ethics is the proper way to behave in society.

Nice try. Ethics is the study of morality, not morality itself. Morals are what you guide your decisions by, and ethics is the study of them.

[Ad Bot]

[Inv3rted]

What I mean is that the morals we are told to follow in our culture stem from religion, and therefore should be ignored. We should have a new code of conduct totally separate from religion, which will be the ethics of an ideal society.

[Snackbar]

What's wrong with having morals that are based in a religion? Even if one isn't of one of the Abrahamic religions, one can still subscribe to the Ten Commandments and follow them. Just because some morals are based around a religious faith doesn't mean that all morals are, and it certainly doesn't mean that the ones that are based in religion are bad.

[Rughugger]

What I mean is that the morals we are told to follow in our culture stem from religion, and therefore should be ignored. We should have a new code of conduct totally separate from religion, which will be the ethics of an ideal society.

So you're saying we should ignore the 10 commandments just because they're religious based? I'd hate to be your kids. "My daddy says I don't have to follow the 10 commandments so Imma gonna kill me some people, treat my parents like crap, cheat on my wife, steal me some things, lie my ass off about it when I'm caught, and I'll live in a constant state of jealousy of what every one else has. But it's okay because daddy says that religious morals suck." *waits for impending lethal injection*

[Grumpy]

I dont see the ten conmandments to be religious, they are good laws to live by and everyone should respect them

[Inv3rted]

What's wrong with having morals that are based in a religion? Even if one isn't of one of the Abrahamic religions, one can still subscribe to the Ten Commandments and follow them. Just because some morals are based around a religious faith doesn't mean that all morals are, and it certainly doesn't mean that the ones that are based in religion are bad.

So you're saying we should ignore the 10 commandments just because they're religious based? I'd hate to be your kids. "My daddy says I don't have to follow the 10 commandments so Imma gonna kill me some people, treat my parents like crap, cheat on my wife, steal me some things, lie my ass off about it when I'm caught, and I'll live in a constant state of jealousy of what every one else has. But it's okay because daddy says that religious morals suck." *waits for impending lethal injection*

You're both idiots for assuming that ethical behavior cannot exist without religion. It's funny how you only mentioned the commandments that actually have a purpose. I'd rather my children never follow this list of handicapation:

 The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1    “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3    “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4    “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I think we could all do without that. This list is in fact harmful because it equates the pointless rules above with murder, rape, adultery, and theft.

[Daedalus]

Internet are serious business 

[devildogelite]

You're 15

[Daedalus]

You're 15

Me? Nooo.

[Rughugger]

You're both idiots for assuming that ethical behavior cannot exist without religion. It's funny how you only mentioned the commandments that actually have a purpose. I'd rather my children never follow this list of handicapation:

 The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1    “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3    “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4    “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

I think we could all do without that. This list is in fact harmful because it equates the pointless rules above with murder, rape, adultery, and theft.

You never specified any specific rules to be omitted, you said any moral that comes from religion. You can't specify and omit what you like just because it will help your argument.
1. The fact of the matter is that you already follow the first commandment. Not to worship any other god than him. You don't do that. You don't worship any god for that matter. So one down.
2. As an atheist, you wouldn't make any carved images in the first place to worship anything. That's two down.
3. As an atheist, you don't believe in a god so you can't take his name in vain. That's three down.
4. Keeping the Sabbath day holy. You're 15, and I doubt you have a job, so you're not really working either. That's four. Seems like for not being a religious person, we're 4 for 4 on the commandment obeying list.
So you don't really need to be religious to follow religious rules of moral behavior.
Just dull down your hate trip of religious things. We know you don't believe, we don't care either. Morals, ethics, commandments, whatever you care to call it, they're rules for cooperating with your fellow man. You just enjoy going on your hate trips, we understand, but the more you do, the less we care to listen.

[Wedge]

What I mean is that the morals we are told to follow in our culture stem from religion, and therefore should be ignored. We should have a new code of conduct totally separate from religion, which will be the ethics of an ideal society.

Since you are not religious, would it be fair for me to assume that you believe that religion was constructed and in fact evolved around a of commonly held set of beliefs, principles, practices and superstitions? And that, indeed, if religion is only a construct of humans that originated in a set of common beliefs, the commonly held set of beliefs that are behind the religion must have come first? People have to believe something is true before they can tell themselves God says it's true. And using the definition of morals as a commonly held system of what is right and wrong, morals most likely emerged before religion?

Perhaps the morals we follow, while surrounded in what you believe to be a lot of mysticism, have a far more ancient origin. Many morals are not specific to any particular religion, perhaps they emerged simultaneously around the world in different cultures and tribes because they were necessary for the survival of society?

Morals, while a key part of many religions, are not in and of themselves religious. An example of a moral is "Killing is wrong." Many people believe "Killing is wrong because God says so" but also believe "Killing is wrong." I'm not entirely certain what it is what you want to do. You say that you want to produce a "religiousless set of morals." I believe that morals are inherently religiousless although they may have a religious context and history built around them. It appears to me anyway, that what you really mean to say is that "I am afraid that in current society morals are taught in a fashion that leads people to see them in a religious context and I cannot stand it."

You're both idiots

Snackbar appears to be saying that ethical behavior (and by the way your argument of secular ethics vs superstitious morals does not fly with my dictionary) can exist outside of religion and that just because a moral may appear in a religious context does not necessarily mean it should be ignored, which appears to actually agree with what you are arguing. Rughugger never said ethical behavior could not exist outside of religion, you built up your own straw man.

Also calling them idiots makes you look like a huge douchebag and takes away from whatever point you appear to be trying to make but I'm sure you don't care.

[devildogelite]

Me? Nooo.

No, not you you're n/a. Inv3rted is 15 and hes arguing with adult who more likely than not has a wider view on the world considering hes been around longer. Inv3rted seems to think that he knows so much about the real world even though he has only experienced so little. I am 15 and I realize that I have been around for a short time, I have not been able to experience a lot of the real world.

[Daedalus]

No, not you you're n/a. Inv3rted is 15 and hes arguing with adult who more likely than not has a wider view on the world considering hes been around longer. Inv3rted seems to think that he knows so much about the real world even though he has only experienced so little. I am 15 and I realize that I have been around for a short time, I have not been able to experience a lot of the real world.

Haha, yeah, N/A; let's go with that.

[Rughugger]

No, not you you're n/a. Inv3rted is 15 and hes arguing with adult who more likely than not has a wider view on the world considering hes been around longer. Inv3rted seems to think that he knows so much about the real world even though he has only experienced so little. I am 15 and I realize that I have been around for a short time, I have not been able to experience a lot of the real world.

In Inv3rted's defense, I'm still a young man and I have a lot to learn in my life as well. It's a never ending process. But he just likes to dump on religious things because he knows he'll get a reaction from it. It's a cheap but effective way to troll and attention whore. Let him do it. He has the right to.

[devildogelite]

In Inv3rted's defense, I'm still a young man and I have a lot to learn in my life as well. It's a never ending process. But he just likes to dump on religious things because he knows he'll get a reaction from it. It's a cheap but effective way to troll and attention whore. Let him do it. He has the right to.

I'm just saying that I know that I'm only 15 and I understand that I know very little on the ways of the world. Seeing as how you are in the real world not being cared for by your parents and having to work for what you get I would believe that you know a little more than him or me.