Author Topic: Kids and politics  (Read 38151 times)

Thorax, you can't claim those people do not exist. Just look at any creationist.

Thorax, you can't claim those people do not exist. Just look at any creationist.

What people?

If I read this correctly, you are saying that I shouldn't even give a second thought about religion. I wonder where the problem with that lies? And if you're so insecure about a fifteen year old spoiled brat who was raped by a pastor questioning your beliefs, I think you should get your 28 year old ass out of here.
Thanks for completely dodging my question. I guess you are butthurt over something and need to take it out on someone. So much for having an open mind about that.

Secondly I'm secure enough in my faith to not let any atheist, let alone a 15 year old kid put doubt into my beliefs. I was atheist for a while and it didn't improve my life at all, it only helped send me further into depression. Since I reaffirmed my faith, I have been able to solve a lot of my problems, find a direction in my life, and I've been happier than I can ever remember being. Sometimes a little faith in something, real or not, can be all that it takes to do good in someone's life. So no, you have no effect on me, my faith, or even my opinion of you, which varies now and then, but is never an extreme like or hatred of.

What I don't get is what caused you to get this way about religion and why that has to send you on your own personal crusade to insult every person who just happens to be happy with having a faith.

To Bisjac, I have a strong belief in both religion and science and that I happen to think that science is the path to understanding how God works and maybe even some day when we advance enough, we can meet him or whatever so called alien race that he may or may not be a part of. Maybe that's why he just up and stopped interacting with us because his direct involvement was causing humanity more harm than it was doing good. Maybe some time in our distant future, humanity can evolve to the point where we are on par with things of that nature. Point is, we don't know, we may never know. But isn't having some kind of rewarding goal not the drive of any person religious or not? I'd like to think so.

-the world is flat

No one has ever really believed the world is flat. At least, medieval Christians never did. The only people who did were Ancient Babylonians and the pre-Manchu (and early Ming, as well) Dynasty China.

I can't say anything is true or untrue in its entirety (except for mathematical proofs), but I can deal with probabilities. The way I see things, there is an overwhelming (and I mean really overwhelming) probability that there is no God, and therefore I would find it irrational to believe there is. I cannot deny the universe is less than a second old, but that is highly improbable.

Since when has a lack of proof for or against been overwhelming support? If you actually have some evidence to back up your claim of "overwhelming probabilities", I'd love to hear them.

Since when has a lack of proof for or against been overwhelming support? If you actually have some evidence to back up your claim of "overwhelming probabilities", I'd love to hear them.
Well the thing I find so amusing about his arguments is that he refers to God and his actions as if they are real yet he doesn't believe in any of it, so wouldn't that kind of fill his arguments with a load of fictitious points completely nullifying his argument completely? I don't know about that. It would be like me arguing that Megatron were real and has killed a lot of people just because it said so in a book that I believe to be fiction.

Well the thing I find so amusing about his arguments is that he refers to God and his actions as if they are real yet he doesn't believe in any of it, so wouldn't that kind of fill his arguments with a load of fictitious points completely nullifying his argument completely? I don't know about that. It would be like me arguing that Megatron were real and has killed a lot of people just because it said so in a book that I believe to be fiction.

What is so amusing here is that I am assuming God is real for the sake of argument. If God is real and he is the God of the bible, there are too many contradictions, too many evils, too many imperfections for him to be a true omnipotent, wholly good, and omniscient God.

Since when has a lack of proof for or against been overwhelming support? If you actually have some evidence to back up your claim of "overwhelming probabilities", I'd love to hear them.

So, you are saying that because there is no evidence for the existence of God it should have weight? Even one example of evidence going the other way would tip the balance overwhelmingly against God's existence. Richard Dawkins has explained the probabilities pretty clearly, and I'll summarize his points:

1. Among the hardest things to figure out in the universe was how the universe and its appearance of design arises.
2. Humans have a natural tendency to assume that what looks designed is designed by a creator.
3. This is false, and is a sky hook. The designer must be more improbable that what is designed, and that raises the question of who designed the designer. This leads to an infinite regress, which is unacceptable.
4. The opposite of a sky hook, a crane, was the process discovered by Darwin: evolution by natural selection. This explained how life diversified on Earth, thus proving that the appearance of design in life is an illusion.
5. The same crane has not yet been discovered in the larger field of physics, but it is possible to apply a similar kind of selective process leading to improbable structures to the whole of the cosmos. This, of course, requires more luck, but by use of the anthropic principle we may postulate more luck than imagined.
6. Such a crane in physics would be ultimately satisfying, because at present we do not have any valid and non-sky hook designer methods for the universe.

Richard Dawkins has also brought up a, dare I say, irrefutable proof that an intelligent designer is extremely improbable. The basic premise is that, however improbable the universe is, the hypothesized creator must be more improbable. This is because you cannot simply say that God exists. He has to have had an origin. Because this being is so improbable, it is very reasonable to bring up a similar 'crane' process to natural selection to slowly build up an improbable structure from selective randomness in small increments. This is the only feasible way this God could exist, but if it is true, then he is not the creator of everything. Then he is not God.

What is the evidence for God's existence? Let me see...

'miracles'

biblical literature

Nothing else (that I can think of, please add more) that hasn't been refuted above.

Miracles and direct communication with Jesus / God / Allah / Satan / Ghosts / Angels / Saints / Spirits / Souls / Vishnu / any deity of any kind are always a result of pareidolia.

Biblical literature has almost no historical value at all; the entire Old Testament is preposterous and vile and the story of Jesus is almost entirely taken from other legends of the region. On top of that, all writings about Jesus were 50 years or more after his supposed resurrection.

No one has ever really believed the world is flat.....people who did were Babylonians,Manchu,China.

hurr durr ok

If I read this correctly, you are saying that I shouldn't even give a second thought about religion. I wonder where the problem with that lies? And if you're so insecure about a fifteen year old spoiled brat who was raped by a pastor questioning your beliefs, I think you should get your 28 year old ass out of here.
As much as I agree with your other opinions and advice, you should try not to bash religions if you simply do not believe in them. You don't really care about it anyway.  :cookieMonster:

You don't really care about it anyway

that is a horsestuff excuse of an argument.
as a believer you should back up your beliefs. and (assuming your christian here) as a christian, you are EXPECTED and TOLD to spread the word and make others believe.

likewise, it should be acceptable for anyone on the other side of the argument to do the same? dismissing them because you dont want to hear them is not christian nor respectable.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 07:01:33 PM by Bisjac »

that is a horsestuff excuse of an argument.
as a believer you should back up your beliefs. and (assuming your christian here) as a christian, you are EXPECTED and TOLD to spread the word and make others believe.

likewise, it should be acceptable for anyone on the other side of the argument to do the same?
Great point. However, as good as it is, I disagree.

Even though you're expected to show your beliefs, it doesn't mean that you should do it every single time especially if that "group" or belief is different from yours, you're pretty much just asking for trouble.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 07:15:52 PM by koolkody12 »

Great point. However, as good as it is, I disagree.

Even though you're expected to show your beliefs, it doesn't mean that you should do it every single time especially if that "group" or belief is different from yours, you're pretty much just asking for trouble.

according to the bible yes you are.
you fear showing your faith, your not a proper christian.

Well of course an Atheist would put forth all of that to disprove a god. What a bleeding shock. Find me a religious person with similar views and I'll take the time to read it. Otherwise, anything an Atheist has to say about religion is bunk.

Most Atheists out there are the way they are because they felt they were important enough to get too many special favors from a god and ended up getting nothing and so have to blame god for not being as awesome as they think they are. Or because they had some kind of enormous grief or injustice in their life that simple praying just won't solve. The other few are those who either never had a religion to begin with so have no basis to argue, or are doing so because it's the current fad and they don't want to look like a cigarette in front of their friends. And I'm not going to count the idiots who pour over a bible looking for as many inconsistencies to put together a crappy propagandist pamphlet arguing only one biased side. That's just way too easy to do with any piece of literature. Talk to Michael Moore about that, he makes movies on the same basis.

We've already established several times in this thread alone that the Bible isn't 100% fact. We know that there are flaws of stories due to personal agendas and bad translating. That is all failings of Man, not God. And to try to blame God for something humans screw up is simply stupid. Any fault of fact or hypocritical matter you find in the Bible is because of a human interpretation of a spoken legend. But it's a start. It's a working model, and it has helped a lot of people through 2000 years of grief and strife. It has helped shape our current society and all of our current laws. Any fault you find in those are also from the misinterpretation and failing of man. The flawed hypocritical judgmental jealous thing you're so against is humanity.

st00f

but atheists don't believe in god i thought lol. your entire description of them shows that they are simply angry believers.

but atheists don't believe in god i thought lol. your entire description of them shows that they are simply angry believers.
In a way, yes. I lost my faith a few years back. I blamed God, naturally because he wasn't there to give me a sign that I was willing to accept because it didn't solve my problems for me. So I kept failing, kept getting more and more depressed and finally hit the point where I was contemplating Self Delete. And honestly, it wasn't that long ago. So in a way, no, I didn't believe in god. I denied his existence and went on my depressive pissy life until I read a book by a Minister in Texas. The way he wrote the book and the examples from the Bible he used just seemed right to me. It seemed as if that's the way Religion should be preached. And so I gained my faith back and I'm proud to be born again.

People loose their faith in some way or are never taught about it in the first place because of parents who lost their faith. That's how a belief spreads just like religions. No Atheism isn't a religion, but it is a belief. But Inv3rted keeps avoiding his reasons for not believing, so I have no idea on how to judge his arguments. But I assume from the fact that he has to insult everyone who has a counter argument that he is someone who has a grudge, or someone who lost their faith or was taught not to have one by parents who did.

hurr durr ok
Excellent riposte! You have won me over with that brilliant response! Your argument skills are truly the nonpareil!

My point still stands. Since the 4th century BCE, the Western and Middle Eastern world has known that the Earth is a sphere. As the three major religions of the world are from these areas, they never thought the world was flat.

Richard Dawkins has also brought up a, dare I say, irrefutable proof

Two things wrong with this quote. First, you're about to quote an argument from Richard Dawkins on religion. As he has never actually read the Bible, he's about as qualified to talk about Christianity as he is qualified to discuss quantum physics; e.g., not at all. Secondly, you claim his proof to be irrefutable. Nothing is irrefutable. Absolutely nothing. Even mathematical axioms have been refuted.

Biblical literature has almost no historical value at all; the entire Old Testament is preposterous and vile and the story of Jesus is almost entirely taken from other legends of the region.

I suppose you know absolutely nothing about historians, do you? Don't even try to say otherwise, because this sentence definitively proves you don't. Since it seems like you're completely unaware of the fact that the Bible is widely used by historians for its historical value, and the Old Testament is considered to be, for the most part, historically accurate.