Kids and politics

[Rughugger]

I was making fun of you calling me a fowl mouth. You used the wrong word. I'm sorry if that flew by your all knowing head. I am aware that I use expletives.

Quack quack, I realized it all too well. That's why I corrected it in my next statement. Quack Quack!

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[Inv3rted]

Where did I say this? I specifically mentioned Richard Dawkins and Inverted, as both clearly did not read the Bible. I never said that you didn't, or that anyone else didn't, just those two.

I have read enough passages to turn me off Judeo-Christian philosophy entirely. And Richard Dawkins did read the Bible, stop saying he did not.

I did not.
I don't even see how this is related to humility, but I'll attempt to decipher your argument and humor you. Humility requires something to be humble to. Christians believe there is no other God and therefore there is nothing for him to be humble to. I'm sure the "be nice to your neighbor" commandment would cover that were there another God. Since there is nothing for him to be humble to, there is nothing to measure humility with.

He has all of his creations to be humble to, dumbass. He punishes them if he feels jealous of another deity which can't be disproved.

Why would I deny this? I never have. Apparently there was some ambiguity. I'll make it clear again. I believe Christians believe their God is flawless.
And I'll make it clear again: having such an evil standard of perfection horribly ruins human morality.

A murderer? This is new. Do gods murder? Is it murder if a god kills? Murder is unlawful. It is not against the law for a god to kill. In fact, it is a god's god-given right to snuff out the life of its creations at whim. Supposedly they have a good reason for this, typically it's punishment for some grievous offence against humanity or the religion. This does not conflict with it's message that killing is wrong for it's subjects to do.

So, by some great leap of stupidity, you have justified God's tales of murders on the simple fact that he created what he is killing. Do parents have a right to slaughter their child? Unlike God, they most certainly exist and they do create. It is their sperm and egg, after all, that makes the baby.  

The flaw is in and of itself judging a god on the same standard as a human. By the nature of religion god is above humans.

Actually, the flaw is that God has very human flaws. He is not above humans as described in the Bible. He is simply supposedly omnipotent and omniscient.

And none of this is even relevant to your point that "Christian morality is destroying America." Suppose that the book it's based on has fallacies in it? How does this manifest itself in the values themselves being poor?

The laws of the Government at its conception were secular. But, over the centuries, many laws have been passed that obviously have religious undertones. First of all, there are the bible literalists whose faith makes them ignore the scientific method, which would lead to no advancement of the species whatsoever. For them, it is moral to do this because science goes against God. Gay marriage and sodomy is ONLY outlawed BECAUSE it is forbidden in the Bible. These are Biblical morals. The literalists also use their self induced ignorance to claim that abortion and stem cell research is murder. It is immoral because science is immoral to them.

Let's clarify something. None of my posts have been trying to state Christianity is true or that you have to believe it. My arguments so far have been trying to get you to justify your ridiculous comment about how America needs to throw away its morals because they're too shrouded in religion, that these morals are invalid because of inconsistencies, and other such things. That's what I tried to lead every argument back to. I don't even get what you were proposing. Our morals are already secular. Murder is declared unlawful in common law "because it is evil." This is a moral. How is this shrouded in religion? Some people chose to believe that this is evil because a god said so. So what? What is wrong with this? God doesn't exist? So?

People believe gay people are evil, atheists are evil (or even subhuman), slavery is humane, demons cause supposed Christians to do bad things, etc. All of these things are in the Bible, and they are all believed by a large population. Murder shouldn't be evil because God said so. It should be evil because it is intentional harm of the species. It is evil because it is unthoughtful.

I do not think you are concerned that America's morals are too religious. I think what you meant to complain about was the prevalence of religion which is something altogether different and totally separate from what I was arguing with you about and what you originally wrote.
This is what I'm arguing with. I'm smart enough not to touch "Religion is stupid and should be abolished" with a 50 foot pole. If thats where you want to take this then forget off, I'm not coming.

What a stunningly assumptive statement. I do not condone the removal of the first amendment rights of anyone. I am knocking some sense into people (although possibly not well) through words, and slowly making them think and choose for themselves is a lot different than abolishing their beliefs by law.

If you want to argue more about how Christian morals are the cancer that is killing American politics and here me retort with more, no, that's people bending a religious text to fit a political agenda, let me know.

Because political agendas are not inspired by biblical morality.

Richard Dawkins's "proof" is simplistic in that it states that God is improbable because God must be complex, and therefore must have been designed by someone else. If that's the case, than I guess scientists should stop trying to create the Grand Unified Theory, because it's clearly highly improbable according to Dawkins, because the GUT would be far more complex than anything it's trying to explain.

LOL. LOOOL. LOOOOOOOOOL.

God is not an explanation. It is a sky hook concept. You cannot use God as an explanation for how or why things are the way they are. It simply brings up more questions than it answers, and leads to the anti scientific method. A creator is different from an explanation. Very different. The Grand Unified Theory has been hypothesized to be beyond human intellect, but for other reasons. Quantum Theory has shown itself to be incredibly difficult to comprehend due to the sheer randomness. The Grand Unified Theory did not create everything, and therefore does not have to be more complex than everything. It is simply an explanation. An explanation does not require a creator, another thing that Darwin's theory has shown.

[Rughugger]

Inv3rted, you only really had experience in one small branch of Christianity on your mother's behalf, nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with not liking it and deciding not to believe. I didn't grow up as a thesist. I grew up Mormon (yes pity me if that's the stereotype people put onto that branch) I didn't like it either. Which was also the time I debunked out of faith. Tried it for a while, didn't like it, now I'm back in. Nothing more to it. But it was a Major somewhere that had a good quote about religion.

"That's the thing about faith...if you don't have it, you can't understand it. And if you do, no explanation is necessary."

Simple as that.

[Inv3rted]

Why not replace faith with something more rational? You need it because you grew up influenced by it. Some people need a structure in their lives, and they fill it with religion. But if you take the supernatural out of religion, you can still have structure.

[Rughugger]

Why not replace faith with something more rational? You need it because you grew up influenced by it. Some people need a structure in their lives, and they fill it with religion. But if you take the supernatural out of religion, you can still have structure.

This is true, however, I grew up under a different branch than I am now, so I'm trying to see faith in as many different eyes and see which one is best suited for me. I'm comfortable with this Pastor by the name of Joel Osteen and feel he has a good idea on what Religion should be or even how it may have begun before the interests of man could corrupt it. I'm happy with it, and it's not way too preachy or you're going to hell, and other such crap. It's pretty much a sermon of "You're an awesome person, you can do anything, and God loves to see you triumph" Nothing really about his involvement or lack of involvement is ever brought up. Just that he's there, and he wants you to be successful. I can live with that as a faith.

Just wondering if you've ever heard of him or not.

[Zaran]

Snackbar, how can you lecture on history when you say that nobody has ever believed the earth is flat?  Try reading the entire Wikipedia article.

It's pretty much a sermon of "You're an awesome person, you can do anything..."

You base your faith off something they tell the children in special ed?

[Inv3rted]

Snackbar, how can you lecture on history when you say that nobody has ever believed the earth is flat?  Try reading the entire Wikipedia article.

He knows the majority of the Old Testament is fact. No need to learn more than that.

And Rughugger, that sounds to me like a preacher telling everyone to stroke their richards with narcissistic passion. Good thing you didn't turn out as an arrogant and egotistical adult at all.

[Healbadbad]

Why not replace faith with something more rational? You need it because you grew up influenced by it. Some people need a structure in their lives, and they fill it with religion.

so, are you saying that there can never be a compromise between science and religion?

You base your faith off something they tell the children in special ed?

humans have done really great things and are still come up with better, which you can help with?

PS, Jesus still loves you even if you don't believe in him. Have a nice day. :)

made my day :D

[Zaran]

humans have done really great things and are still come up with better, which you can help with?

I can tell you've heard that awesome person bullstuff quite a few times.

[Healbadbad]

I can tell you've heard that awesome person bullstuff quite a few times.

a couple

[Rughugger]

He knows the majority of the Old Testament is fact. No need to learn more than that.

And Rughugger, that sounds to me like a preacher telling everyone to stroke their richards with narcissistic passion. Good thing you didn't turn out as an arrogant and egotistical adult at all.

Well until you actually watch one of his video clips, I don't expect you to understand. And religion has nothing to do with me being egotistical or arrogant. That comes from experience in life. I was a lot worse before I started listening to Joel. You don't like me now, you would have hated me as an atheist. Or I would have made you proud, I dunno, you're kinda messed up that way. :)

[Inv3rted]

so, are you saying that there can never be a compromise between science and religion?

Yes. Religion is a bronze age method of figuring out the unknown. Science is a principle based on logic and observations that has developed over the centuries. Both seek to explain the same things.

humans have done really great things and are still come up with better, which you can help with?

Another problem with JudeoChristian philosophy is that it makes people believe they are significant. You are not. You are simply the end result of many cases of mutation and selection.

made my day :D

If I am correct, the Holy Trinity is both one and three things. God says repeatedly in the Old Testament that nonbelievers should be punished, showing how little love he has of his creations. If Jesus loves me and God doesn't, does that mean God changed his mind? If God changes his mind, he is not omniscient.

Well until you actually watch one of his video clips, I don't expect you to understand. And religion has nothing to do with me being egotistical or arrogant. That comes from experience in life. I was a lot worse before I started listening to Joel. You don't like me now, you would have hated me as an atheist. Or I would have made you proud, I dunno, you're kinda messed up that way. :)

My problem with your ego is not the fact that it exists. My problem is that it is based around your age, and how it makes you feel superior. 

[Healbadbad]

Another problem with JudeoChristian philosophy is that it makes people believe they are significant. You are not. You are simply the end result of many cases of mutation and selection.

so was newton

[Inv3rted]

Newton was also a great user of the scientific method. On a cosmic scale, he is still insignificant.

[Rughugger]

My problem with your ego is not the fact that it exists. My problem is that it is based around your age, and how it makes you feel superior. 

I don't feel superior, I am. It's not arrogance, it's not being a richard. Experience and fact simply state that. Your parents are better than you, there are many people better than you. Just as there are many people who are much better than me. Badspot for example, is better than me. I can concede to that. Bisjac is better than me in some ways. I accept that. You, however, have shown me to be rather childish, offensive, and insecure. But you also make a lot of good arguments, which I have stated on other threads, so at this point in the argument, I can't admit you as better simply because you haven't changed my choice of belief. If that ever happens, then I concede your supremacy. But I really doubt that will happen.  As soon as you have been out on your own and gain some valuable life experience that I have had the time to obtain, I can't consider you superior. It will happen for you soon enough and then you'll have a better understanding of this so called arrogance and superiority you claim I exhibit. As I said, it's not a personal thing, it's fact. Just deal with the fact that you're not almighty yourself and try to peg people down to your level with any more petty insults.