Author Topic: Science people: debunk this (OP image fixed)  (Read 7847 times)

no. if acceleration due to buoyancy is greater than 20m/s2 force must be expended to drag those balls. force that could have been used to accelerate the rising balls.

Ok now that I know exactly what I need to refute this will be faster.

The weight of the ball is in the direction of motion, already by definition causing acceleration, regardless of values.  However, I know you know this and are going to look for better explanation.  Here goes:

The tension is in a closed loop.  This means that something pulling at one point is pulling at all other points, including itself.  It is tempting to think that if something is accelerating at a certain rate, anything accelerating more slowly would reduce the force of the system due to the lessened acceleration.  However, due to being on a loop of string, any force it exerts to "drag" the other thing along will come back full circle and essentially be pulling on itself.  Because of this, tensions in a closed loop are completely ignorable when determining the total force and acceleration of a system.  Then, you have B-W on one side and W on other, and nothing else.  Tensions involved will cancel themselves out due to the closed nature of the loop and the net force is B, which is greater than B-W.  The falling ball will always help.

O I thought of something else too:  You are right in saying that the acceleration of the system could be less, because the added mass could be greater than the force it provides by falling proportional to the force and acceleration of the other.  But I think you are getting force and acceleration confused, because the system would always have more force and therefore output more energy (at least until a ball got to the valve), it just is also a possibility that the Force does not double while the mass does, reducing acceleration.  The ball falling will still provide force to the system and do work in all cases.

This reminds me of a problem we did where we had two objects, one was pulled by a 15N force and the other was pulled by the weight of a mass weighing 15N, and we needed to decide if the acceleration of the object being pulled would be greater in one or identical.  The first one would actually have more acceleration, even though it is being acted upon by the same force.  The mass of the second object is what changes it.

How about "it just won't work and it's clearly obvious?"

You guys have blown this way out of proportion lol.


To me I am explaining a physics concept like I do almost every day to my lab partner who would probably be getting an D or an F if I didn't help.  I don't exactly see it as blowing it out of proportion or a fight.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 06:27:03 PM by Nexus »

i am going to make a simple model to prove to you all that this is impossible.

biomass is where electricity is headed man


i am going to make a simple model to prove to you all that this is impossible.

im curious as to how the seal will be done lol.

you cannot avoid leaking. and then i dont think the weak "power" of the string of balls can pull itself up through any seal being held shut by the weight of the water.

Issue#1: string does not fit through traditional 1 valves and traditional pressure locks.

im curious as to how the seal will be done lol.

you cannot avoid leaking. and then i dont think the weak "power" of the string of balls can pull itself up through any seal being held shut by the weight of the water.
Maybe the balls could be surrounded by a rubber tube or something
or the seal could be a lubed up sphincter
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 06:52:54 PM by NotKreation »

Maybe the balls could be surrounded by a rubber tube or something
or the seal could be a lubed up sphincter
Equilibrium would force water into both sides of the tube. I've tried three different valve models and none of them let the string, much less the ball, through without leaks.

I think that would work, assuming you could find a way to keep the water from getting out.

I think that would work, assuming you could find a way to keep the water from getting out.

The problem is that the ball is moving from the low pressure air to the high pressures at the bottom of the water.  The work needed to force the ball through that pressure change accounts for all the work output of the rest of the system.  The nature of the valve is irrelevant in any physics problem.  You can literally just say that the water is held in a container that holds liquids and allows solids to pass through.  This is a conceptual problem, not an engineering problem.

Ugh. science.

you people make my HEAD HURT.

Nerds...

The problem is that the ball is moving from the low pressure air to the high pressures at the bottom of the water.  The work needed to force the ball through that pressure change accounts for all the work output of the rest of the system.  The nature of the valve is irrelevant in any physics problem.  You can literally just say that the water is held in a container that holds liquids and allows solids to pass through.  This is a conceptual problem, not an engineering problem.

Oh.
Well I could barely get into life science this year let alone physics.

The problem is that the ball is moving from the low pressure air to the high pressures at the bottom of the water.  The work needed to force the ball through that pressure change accounts for all the work output of the rest of the system.  The nature of the valve is irrelevant in any physics problem.  You can literally just say that the water is held in a container that holds liquids and allows solids to pass through.  This is a conceptual problem, not an engineering problem.
it's an engineering problem in the sense that this won't work in any real life adaptation due to friction and the fact that at the top the balls would just pile together.

it's an engineering problem in the sense that this won't work in any real life adaptation due to friction and the fact that at the top the balls would just pile together.
You're not understanding how the balls are connected.

You're not understanding how the balls are connected.
they are connected by a string. the balls would move up and the string would get taught, causing the generator to not move.