Video Games: What Makes It Art?

[childofdarkness016]

For my Effective Speech class, I am supposed to give a persuasive speech that attempts to explain to the audience why video games should be considered a high art. In addition to my speech, another student is supposed to support me and elaborate on my points if she wishes, another student is supposed to ask questions for clarification mid-speech,  but the main issue lies within the third, who is supposed to attempt to counter my speech (this was to form sort of a "mini-rally"). The person opposing me sincerely believes that video games cannot be considered art, quite shockingly enough for a student attending a school that specializes in art and communications. Regardless, her argument hinges entirely on the fact that violence in video games prevents it from becoming art. While I respected my friend and still do, this argument is absolutely absurd. All art forms have violence in them in some form at some points, but that didn't seem to persuade her.

I decided that the way I can prepare for her argument best is to find a game that has a high amount of violence in it, yet still has some meaning to it and can be described as art. The first game that came to my mind was Bioshock Infinite. The only issue, however, is that I have only heard good word of this title. I've never played it myself, and since I've always wanted to play it, I've never watched a playthrough of any of the games. I can't pick another game because I don't really play the typical "violent video game" and therefore cannot sufficiently refute her argument solely with my experiences.

Now, to cut to the chase.... The questions I pose are:

1. By watching a playthrough, can I still get enough of the game's experience to determine whether or not I believe it has meaning?

2. Would you say this game has meaning? How does it fit your definition of art?

3. Did the game's narrative affect you in any way? This is especially important because the thesis of my argument primarily focuses on the narrative aspect of video games.

Thank you for your time.


Changing the topic a little bit. Do you agree with the notion that video games can be considered a high-art form (When I say this, I mean that it is capable of delivering a message that is both timeless and meaningful)? If so, what do you think makes video games a high-artistic medium?

[Ad Bot]

[ZombiLoin]

1) Yes you can. The gameplay and story in Bioshock Infinite have near complete segregation. The game lacks in gameplay, but it has a marvelous aesthetic and good graphics.

2) However, her argument IMO works with this game. In Bioshock Infinite, there are periods of intense violence interspersed with periods of peace. However, the intense violence does not really fit within the context of the narrative (video game was here, but narrative is a better word). It's incredibly jarring that Elizabeth and Booker easily turn into monstrous killing machines (well, Booker does anyways, Elizabeth doesn't seem to mind) and only makes the "heartwarming" scenes comedic especially when compared to the 13-25 people you just slaughter 2 minutes ago. The usage of racism in the game is only (inb4 the hate) exploited without it ever really being investigated. The violence in the game made it lose any meaning for me (the ending was also pretty bad).

Also this isn't a definition of art but I remember agreeing with someone's sentiment that literature is writing that changes you after reading it. Which lets us go into-

3) Not really. Once you get past the "doe-eyed girl" aspect of Elizabeth there's nothing really heart wrenching or thought provoking about it.

There are other games with violence that you can use that are much better examples of what you want. The Last of Us would work but it suffers from many of the same flaws that Bioshock Infinite suffers from. Planescape Torment, Fallout (1 and New Vegas), Dark Souls, 'Papers, Please', and Hotline Miami are examples of game with significant and clear meaning that have heavy violence. Postal 2 and the GTA series can act as one if you really want to piss her off.

EDIT: Red Dead Redemption is an awesome one too.

[Doughboy]

video games cannot be art until movies and paintings include escort missions

[ZombiLoin]

video games cannot be art until movies and paintings include escort missions

wow bitch have you ever seen Blind Fury

[childofdarkness016]

1) Yes you can. The gameplay and story in Bioshock Infinite have near complete segregation. The game lacks in gameplay, but it has a marvelous aesthetic and good graphics.

2) However, her argument IMO works with this game. In Bioshock Infinite, there are periods of intense violence interspersed with periods of peace. However, the intense violence does not really fit within the context of the narrative (video game was here, but narrative is a better word). It's incredibly jarring that Elizabeth and Booker easily turn into monstrous killing machines (well, Booker does anyways, Elizabeth doesn't seem to mind) and only makes the "heartwarming" scenes comedic especially when compared to the 13-25 people you just slaughter 2 minutes ago. The usage of racism in the game is only (inb4 the hate) exploited without it ever really being investigated. The violence in the game made it lose any meaning for me (the ending was also pretty bad).

Also this isn't a definition of art but I remember agreeing with someone's sentiment that literature is writing that changes you after reading it. Which lets us go into-

3) Not really. Once you get past the "doe-eyed girl" aspect of Elizabeth there's nothing really heart wrenching or thought provoking about it.

There are other games with violence that you can use that are much better examples of what you want. The Last of Us would work but it suffers from many of the same flaws that Bioshock Infinite suffers from. Planescape Torment, Fallout (1 and New Vegas), Dark Souls, 'Papers, Please', and Hotline Miami are examples of game with significant and clear meaning that have heavy violence. Postal 2 and the GTA series can act as one if you really want to piss her off.

EDIT: Red Dead Redemption is an awesome one too.

Thank you for your insight. I guess that was a poor example to choose, so I will look further into this with the games you suggested. I was considering using Papers, Please as an example, but I was hoping to use something a bit more mainstream and familiar.

[ZombiLoin]

Thank you for your insight. I guess that was a poor example to choose, so I will look further into this with the games you suggested. I was considering using Paper's, Please as an example, but I was hoping to use something a bit more mainstream and familiar.

Don't. While yes, some thing that are mainstream and familiar do have deeper meaning that your average blockbuster, you're generally not going to get anywhere looking there. Same with movies and books.

[Jairo]

violence makes something not art?

isn't that the foundation for a ton of songs, paintings, films, and books?

[SquartleTurtle]

i only beated it so i can stare at elizabeths jugs

[Alternat¡ve]

bioshock infinite was pretty terrible

[childofdarkness016]

violence makes something not art?

isn't that the foundation for a ton of songs, paintings, films, and books?

Yeah, I tried to say that... Apparently, art is supposed to evoke positive feelings, something that violence cannot?? I didn't understand her argument that well and I'm worried about a possible miscommunication, but again, all three of her arguments hinged upon the idea that the meaningless violence of video games is different from that of other art forms. If I recall correctly, most of them parroted the usual "video games are violent and turn our brains to mush" idea that non-gamers seem to have, yet restated three different ways.

Don't. While yes, some thing that are mainstream and familiar do have deeper meaning that your average blockbuster, you're generally not going to get anywhere looking there. Same with movies and books.

I honestly disagree, but I do so respectfully.

bioshock infinite was pretty terrible

Gameplay-wise or narrative-wise?

[otto-san]

Video games are a form of entertainment, just as a movie or a book. These are media arts, rather than art like music or drawings.

It is literally actually legitimately incorrect to really seriously state that video games are not verily true art.

If video games aren't art, then neither is theatre, cinema, animation, etc.

[Machaty]

I have to suggest "Papers,please" as an example. Do I let this woman meet her family on the other side of the border, or do I feed my family tonight? Should I kill this man and get a pay raise, or let him go? It makes you ask questions like those constantly. I think something showing the emotional turmoil of ending a life would help your case, and papers please does it very well.

[Jontron]

video games cannot be art until movies and paintings include escort missions

Don't forget teleport knifing, gotta have that.

[Night Fox]

same way everything else is art...
writing is art, drawing is art, 3D modelling is art, acting is art
games are just all of that stuff put together, sooo

[McJobless]

inb4 the "Don't Bump" crew

I'd suggest you read Ralph Koster's "A Theory of Fun" which goes really indepth on why games CAN be considered art, and also why they currently aren't art.

The basic summary is that, the best definition of the word "art" is "Something that can be interpreted in more than one way". When you see a film, look at a painting, read a book or listen to a song, the way you understand that medium will be completely different to the way someone else does.

Games have this new ability to immerse people in the experience. The experience itself, the puzzles of the game, if you will, SHOULD be open to their own interpretation. Raph goes a far way to try and convince his readers that the only way games can be considered art is if the puzzles in the game don't have a single solution meticulously created by the designer, but can be solved in any number of ways thought up by the player.

A lot of indie games and a fair few AAA titles allow multiple solutions to one puzzle, although Raph believes that having multiple paths in your game (such as having multiple endings based on what you do in the story) is =/= to an open-ended experience that can be interpreted in anyway and therefore art.

Anyways, I think Raph made his definition a little too complex and linear. Games are made up of all the elements of the previous forms of media, and in many ways even linear gameplay is still open to interpretation, so yeah.

Hopefully that's helpful in some way.