Violent standoff of baltimore protesters

[Cantaloupe]

of course there are ways - i'm not gonna argue people haven't had rags to riches stories, because there are plenty of em. it's just that the vast majority of people can't escape. i'm sure there are people here who would argue that it's better to let those few lucky hard workers succeed and the rest suffer, but i don't think that that mentality is going to fix anything, it just creates a couple of millionares and a bunch of poor people.

Why is it that many new European immigrants who first came to America during the twentieth century were able to make it, and these people cant? They've been here long enough. The new European immigrants who came to this country throughout the turn of the twentieth century lived in slums basically. They moved up.

yes, but i also said that even if you have motivation and drive, you're still most likely screwed. a lot of their apathy probably comes from believing in the american dream, that anyone can succeed, and after 10 years of being stuck realizing that it's just a dream.

If they don't have motivation, that is nobody else's problem but theirs. Government can only do so much for a people.

looking at the forbes list, it is true that the majority are self made, but i don't see anything statistics that says most of em came from very poor families. do you have any numbers on that?
i feel like you're arguing that the world is idyllic - that if you set your heart to anything you can achieve it.

Do you think that each and every one of these self-made millionaires came from wealthy families? No. It is plausible to say that some came from working-class families, but you cant assume that each of them came from well off backgrounds. You don't have to be rich, to become richer. You can be poor, and still make it up there. It just takes more time.

but that's wishful thinking, and wishful thinking gets us no where. thinking that "everything will be okay for the ones who want it" allows you to not have to focus on the problem of people who do want it but can't have it.

who says you have to be black to have a lower quality of life? just stop working and eventually you'll get everything for free

Per capita, African Americans are the poorest group. According to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation (http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/) - 27% of all African Americans live below the poverty line, while with whites it is standing at a mere 10%. That is completely disproportionate, especially since blacks are only 13% of the population. Does that not say anything to you?

I wasn't sure how else to do it, so I highlighted my responses in bold. Sorry if it is hard to read.

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[Camel]

Why is it that many new European immigrants who first came to America during the twentieth century were able to make it, and these people cant? They've been here long enough. The new European immigrants who came to this country throughout the turn of the twentieth century lived in slums basically. They moved up.

so cus people in another time, with different situations, in a different america, with a different economy and different social system, made it, people should make it now?

If they don't have motivation, that is nobody else's problem but theirs. Government can only do so much for a people.

once again, they have motivation, but they are trapped. please refer back to my original statement

Do you think that each and every one of these self-made millionaires came from wealthy families? No. It is plausible to say that some came from working-class families, but you cant assume that each of them came from well off backgrounds. You don't have to be rich, to become richer. You can be poor, and still make it up there. It just takes more time.

alright, but you said that the vast majority of the people on the list were from very poor families. you have back up your claim with fact, not just what might be going on. i can say that every shoe made by vans are black cus black is a cool color; that doesn't make it any truer.

Per capita, African Americans are the poorest group. According to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation (http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/) - 27% of all African Americans live below the poverty line, while with whites it is standing at a mere 10%. That is completely disproportionate, especially since blacks are only 13% of the population. Does that not say anything to you?

i was being tongue-in-cheek. i was just saying that bisjac's argument is silly cus just cus it's free, doesn't mean it's good.

[Aces]

Just pointing out that saying 13% of the population is black is pretty irrelevant because the statistics are already proportional to percentage. Population is already taken into account.

But I guess it's a broken record thing now where anything involving numbers defaults to the 13% statement.

[Cantaloupe]

so cus people in another time, with different situations, in a different america, with a different economy and different social system, made it, people should make it now?

Can you tell me how the situations of these people differ from those who came to America during the turn of the twentieth century? I understand that it was a long time ago, but America's new European immigrants all came very poor - just as these people, who are very poor (minorities). The only difference, is that African Americans have been in America for hundreds of years. It's been fifty years since segregation has ended, and there still has not been much progress within the black community in terms of rejuvenating their community.

once again, they have motivation, but they are trapped. please refer back to my original statement

You cant keep saying this though, don't you think my ancestors were very poor when they first settled in this country? They had a mindset where they knew that if they made the right choices, that they'd make it through - and they did. America may be lacking in safety nets for the impoverished, but one thing is for certain, and that is these people are most definitely not trapped. There are tons of organizations which practically give you everything you need, and it isn't like you are on your own now. We have tons and tons of benefits which cater to the general welfare of all -- which include benefits to the disabled, mothers who are pregnant, retirees, and also people who are unemployed.

alright, but you said that the vast majority of the people on the list were from very poor families. you have back up your claim with fact, not just what might be going on. i can say that every shoe made by vans are black cus black is a cool color; that doesn't make it any truer.
i was being tongue-in-cheek. i was just saying that bisjac's argument is silly cus just cus it's free, doesn't mean it's good.

I did not say that. I just said that it isn't safe to assume that every person on that list came from a comfortable and/or middle-class/working-class background. There are many people in America who have their wealth inherited, but think about their first ancestors who came to this nation - do you really think that they were well off just like their predecessors (ancestors living now)?

Just pointing out that saying 13% of the population is black is pretty irrelevant because the statistics are already proportional to percentage. Population is already taken into account.

But I guess it's a broken record thing now where anything involving numbers defaults to the 13% statement.

How are they proportional to percentage? Blacks make up less than a quarter of the U.S. population, much less than a quarter, to be exact. In every state according to those statistics - the group that lives the most under the poverty line are African Americans. Keep in mind that there is no state in America that has a black majority, as we speak. So tell me, how in the world is this proportional?

[Aces]

How are they proportional to percentage? Blacks make up less than a quarter of the U.S. population, much less than a quarter, to be exact. In every state according to those statistics - the group that lives the most under the poverty line are African Americans. Keep in mind that there is no state in America that has a black majority, as we speak. So tell me, how in the world is this proportional?

Do you not know how percentages work?

Simply put: out of every 100 black people, 27 of them are impoverished, and out of every 100 white people, 10 are impoverished. Scale that up to 37 million and 196 million and you get the same results. A general population percentage doesn't come into play because it accounts for the entirety of all black and white people.

It's funny because the statistic was probably created in order to make it easier to see the demographics of poverty without the unnecessary mathematics.

[Cantaloupe]

Do you not know how percentages work?

Simply put: out of every 100 black people, 27 of them are impoverished, and out of every 100 white people, 10 are impoverished. Scale that up to 37 million and 196 million and you get the same results. A general population percentage doesn't come into play because it accounts for the entirety of all black and white people.

It's funny because the statistic was probably created in order to make it easier to see the demographics of poverty without the unnecessary mathematics.

In comparison to blacks in poverty, there are more whites who are impoverished. I am trying to say that blacks are more likely to be impoverished rather than a white. Wouldn't it make more sense for the majority to be more impoverished than a small minority? You already said it yourself, out of every one hundred black people, 27 of those are impoverished. Whereas with whites, out of every one hundred of them, only ten are impoverished. That is a huge difference, especially when one group constitutes well over 70% of the general population, and another constitutes ~15%.

[Camel]

Can you tell me how the situations of these people differ from those who came to America during the turn of the twentieth century? I understand that it was a long time ago, but America's new European immigrants all came very poor - just as these people, who are very poor (minorities). The only difference, is that African Americans have been in America for hundreds of years. It's been fifty years since segregation has ended, and there still has not been much progress within the black community in terms of rejuvenating their community.

you know what, i think i'm gonna amend my statement. i think that the situation black people are in now is very similar to the situation immigrants were in. they came to america penniless, and were herded into slums. they all faced internal conflict; gangs, drug dealers, etc. as well as external conflict from cruel police and a complacent middle class. most of em didn't make it. those who did eventually had families who had families, and now they have most of the wealth in america. so maybe you're not wrong after all, i guess black people are like the trapped, oppressed immigrants of the twentieth century

You cant keep saying this though, don't you think my ancestors were very poor when they first settled in this country? They had a mindset where they knew that if they made the right choices, that they'd make it through - and they did. America may be lacking in safety nets for the impoverished, but one thing is for certain, and that is these people are most definitely not trapped. There are tons of organizations which practically give you everything you need, and it isn't like you are on your own now. We have tons and tons of benefits which cater to the general welfare of all -- which include benefits to the disabled, mothers who are pregnant, retirees, and also people who are unemployed.

how poor were they? did you adjust for inflation?

maybe your ancestors got lucky

I did not say that. I just said that it isn't safe to assume that every person on that list came from a comfortable and/or middle-class/working-class background.

actually you said

Most of America's millionaires didn't inherit their wealth, a great proportion of those who are at the top 1% came from very poor families.

[Aces]

In comparison to blacks in poverty, there are more whites who are impoverished. I am trying to say that blacks are more likely to be impoverished rather than a white.

That is literally all the statistic is supposed to account for.

That is a huge difference, especially when one group constitutes well over 70% of the general population, and another constitutes ~15%.

The correct numbers are 72.4% and 12.6%. Try and remember them before you bring them up.

And if you sit and do the math you'll find with the 13% and 72% recognized you get 3.4 and 7.24% respectively. Using population percentages only deviates from the main point and makes it seem like white people are twice as likely to be impoverished.

Do you understand now? If that's the look you're going for I'm cool with it.

[·::Kishgal::·]

>2015
>arguing with caribou

[Aces]

>2015
>arguing with caribou

right

[Camel]

>2015
>arguing with caribou

[Cantaloupe]

you know what, i think i'm gonna amend my statement. i think that the situation black people are in now is very similar to the situation immigrants were in. they came to america penniless, and were herded into slums.

I think that there is a difference. No group of people is being herded into a slum today, if they are - then that isn't the fault of the Government. I already explained how now we have so many generous welfare benefits, not to mention Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Back then you either made it, or you didn't, and you couldn't do anything about it. Unlike that point in time, now we do have a safety net. It needs some work and it is lacking, but there IS a safety net. Now you have so many options, even if you are penny-less.

 they all faced internal conflict; gangs, drug dealers, etc. as well as external conflict from cruel police and a complacent middle class. most of em didn't make it. those who did eventually had families who had families, and now they have most of the wealth in america. so maybe you're not wrong after all, i guess black people are like the trapped, oppressed immigrants of the twentieth century
how poor were they? did you adjust for inflation?

You do have a great point there, I cant really give a definitive answer on that one.

maybe your ancestors got lucky
actually you said

They worked very hard, saved up their monies, and earned an education

>2015
>arguing with caribou

It's a debate.

[·::Kishgal::·]

It's a debate.

ok, is that supposed to change anything, or...

[Harm94]

So uh... I say we better off than africa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlF4lrf1Fg

[Cantaloupe]

So uh... I say we better off than africa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlF4lrf1Fg

I have a lot of family in South Africa, and I have visited there myself and it is devastating what has happened to the once civilized heart of Southern Africa. The African National Congress has destroyed the nation, the same thing that happened to Zimbabwe is happening in South Africa. Hopefully it doesn't happen to America.