Author Topic: Feminists Play Grand Theft Auto.  (Read 23374 times)

More multi-facited NPCs are a great step in the right direction, of course.
Uh, in the game you don't HAVE to be a male character either, you can customize him/her. :v
This goes for any other RPG game made by Bethesda.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 06:50:14 PM by tnatsissA »

But that's still not addressing the deeper issue here.
Females in gaming is not a deeper issue. It's a pointless debate by people who are frustrated because games are being designed by people who aren't as deeply cultures as those in other creative industries without realising it.

What is an intrinsically "male" story and what's a "female" story?
There is no such thing. There is only what character fits better for a given story, and that is based on the context of the story. What job does the character have/had? Where do they live? What is their role in the story? How does their mind work?

Shouldn't any good story be applicable to as many people as possible, therefor you can put any gender of character in it and it'll still hold its own?
No. Absolutely not. A good story follows a consistent logic, asks questions, delivers answers and has a point for being told. The characters, locations, items etc are all essentially meaningless in the long run, but they are necessary to ensure that the story makes sense and that the message is delivered exactly as the author intended.

If there can't be any petty female thieves in GTA, why not?
Because that's what the author(s) decided.

But I am going to start to wonder then if maybe, after your thirtieth or fortieth consecutive male driven story why we can't have something new or different? White, chisel-jawed male after white chisel-jawed male gets tedious.
Regardless of whether its tedious or not, it's probably because the authors are making satire out of places such as America and England, and are trying to develop specific stereotypes in order to demonstrate their failings. Rockstar's ultimate goal is to take the piss out of those stereotypes, and what stereotypes do they know best? The male ones.

GTA is all about satire, and good satire stems from something you know well.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 06:52:53 PM by McJob »

-snip-
I thought there was a game you got to play as the one crazy chick from gta sa

I'd rather have a well written character intended to fill the role than a minority/whatever shelled in merely to fit a diversity quota
What kind of character absolutely needs to be written to be a white male to fit the story?

You enjoy kool kids klub simulators or something?

Why not? They wrote three different protagonists this time around, why can't even one be a chick?
Because they didn't write one. Have you ever written anything? There's no grand schema behind it, they just write what they know. Chances are most of the writers are men, thus, they write men.

What kind of character absolutely needs to be written to be a white male to fit the story?
A character where the story is best suited by a white male character.

A character where the story is best suited by a white male character.
Like?

What kind of character absolutely needs to be written to be a white male to fit the story?
You enjoy kool kids klub simulators or something?
What kind of character absolutely needs to be written to be [ANYTHING] to fit the story?


Like?
Your common military shooter, given that a lot of them are based on comfortable stereotypes of soldiers in the USA/UK armies being generally white males. Games like Bioshock where you're playing a world beset in racism and class issues. Assassin's Creed, where the original character selected was a white male to present a contrast with the meta-character, and so it makes sense for the lineage to continue as such, especially given that the Assassins commonly refer to themselves as the "Brotherhood" (even though there have been many examples of female assassins). So on, so forth.

Well, GTA is a bad example though, because you're right, it's a satirical story and it's making fun of the crime film genre which is typically inhabited by men.

I guess what I'm getting at is, there are more stories to be told than the ones were telling currently. Sure, these stories fit their niche and are a good example of the culture they embodies. But then, we've told those stories about a thousand times by now (and yeah yeah, we will for a lot longer too, cause there are only so many different kinds of stories even to tell), so why not, just for the sake of doing something new, tell a story from a different perspective, one that we don't hear often?

And fine, the argument can be made that maybe males aren't able to write from the female perspective, so then why not hire some more female writers and just see what happens?

I'm not trying to say to gender these things specifically for its own sake, I'm saying that, even as a white male in his 20s, I am getting tired of the stories video games are telling. I'm getting tired of the stories movies are telling. I see a narrative everyday, and it's like, it's not hard to just say, "eh, more equality in stories could be cool."

Do I think the video in the OP is a good representation of the feminist movement? No. They probably edited that video down to just the "buzz" worthy bits and put that up.

If the creators of video games don't wanna write female protagonists, fine, they don't have to. But I wonder why there can't just be more people saying "hey, let's just make it about a chick, cause, forget it, why the forget not?"

wasn't altair syrian in assassins creed 1 or am i mistaken?

A story is a story, the characters in a story are not for you to relate to as much as to convey the story as written.

You can be a woman in GTA Online, a more than acceptable means to "relate" to your character in a violent psychopathic video-game assuming that you are a girl in real life.

The game is incredibly offensive to nearly everyone, and I would say that I personally believe the game is 1000 loving million times more offensive to police officers than everyone else put together.

If someone who truly believes in equality saw GTA they would likely be disgusted, but not because of the gender issues in the game alone.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 07:09:58 PM by Tokerovin »

I guess what I'm getting at is, there are more stories to be told than the ones were telling currently. Sure, these stories fit their niche and are a good example of the culture they embodies. But then, we've told those stories about a thousand times by now (and yeah yeah, we will for a lot longer too, cause there are only so many different kinds of stories even to tell), so why not, just for the sake of doing something new, tell a story from a different perspective, one that we don't hear often?
Because the problem has NOTHING to do with females. It has everything to do with the culture of game design. The majority of designers are studying the more practical side of development, whereas the more important theoretical side which makes for better stories is not being taught to them. Game designers are not learning about culture, rhetorics, psychology, art, mythology and the other important story telling aspects that movie makers have been going crazy over for years. That's why there's such a lack in creative stories.

Even those who do rarely hold onto and apply that knowledge.

And fine, the argument can be made that maybe males aren't able to write from the female perspective, so then why not hire some more female writers and just see what happens?
Because that would be loveist. It's unfair to hire a person based on their love. If I lost a job because I'm male, isn't that the exact same problem? It should be based on the quality of work and the level of creativity, but nobody cares.

I'm saying that, even as a white male in his 20s, I am getting tired of the stories video games are telling. I'm getting tired of the stories movies are telling. I see a narrative everyday, and it's like, it's not hard to just say, "eh, more equality in stories could be cool."
Trust me; it has nothing to do with the protagonist's love. If it was changed, you'd feel the exact same way. The problem is a distinct lack of creative story telling based on thousands of years of how to make interesting stories. People no longer need to study to tell stories. All they need is some recording equipment and a few spare hours loving around, and that upsets me deeply as somebody who wants to make intellectually-moving stories.

If the creators of video games don't wanna write female protagonists, fine, they don't have to. But I wonder why there can't just be more people saying "hey, let's just make it about a chick, cause, forget it, why the forget not?"
Because that's a handicapped way to make game stories, and your female protagonist would likely not have the depth necessary to be a meaningful character that people enjoy. People would call it just another "shallow replica".
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 07:09:16 PM by McJob »

ITT: buzzfeed's at it again, buzzfeed gets called out, swholli's triggered