Author Topic: 10 year-old raped by stepfather, Paraguay congress rules out abortion  (Read 4395 times)

Bisjac said that the actually trama didn't have any effect on the victims mental state
No, he's saying there is no trauma to affect the victim's mental state until we make it traumatic
With the examples you're bringing up, there is immediate trauma because their is immediate physical danger.
But in cases where the kid doesn't understand that what is happening is bad:
the kid dosnt even know how to feel about it until a handful of adults beat it into their heads that something awful has happened to them!!!!!! and they must now cope!!!!!!! and they must now comprehend this specific spoonfed version of the event.

its hard for a first world person to understand. kids here are taught to be traumatized by specific things, before it ever happens to them.

a kid in some dump country can suck richards to feed their sick mother their entire childhood. and grow up in a fine mental state. because that is the perspective.

but here, a kid gets a snake flashes at them in the park, and they are curled up in the shower stuffting themselves for months.

trauma is taught and learned.

if it was categorised as statutory rape, it's unlikely that the event itself was as traumatising as a more violent crime

uhh however reading the article real quick:
Quote
The girl said she had been loveually abused by her stepfather, 42-year-old Gilberto Benitez Zarate.
???

is this vague falsification or is the article straight-up wrong... or perhaps it was actually legitimately a loveual assault and she didn't tell anyone because that's often the case with abuse? i don't really know the details but i'm more concerned about other things being said right now

regardless, if anyone is trying to claim trauma exists.. um.. wat.. like seriously is that actually a claim being made.. i mean i get the whole thing that people can be convinced that there's something wrong with them, that's defo true, but the two things aren't mutually exclusive...

trauma is a legitimate psychological response to an event. people that go through trauma often have to find ways to move on, because the effects of trauma are disruptive to normal living. after the event, the individual is likely to be confused, not because they don't understand that it was bad, but because they don't understand how to deal with it or are in denial of the problem. i don't really think it's a fair estimation of the human mind to assume that people are unable to determine the severity of something that happened to them. a ten year old child that has already begun puberty, for instance, would likely have the mental capacity to determine if they don't want their step-father loveually assaulting them

also ptsd and trauma are fairly different. someone doesn't have ptsd after a traumatic event, they have it after symptoms worsen and stay consistent for long periods of time and remain disruptive to every day living (which is what constitutes a disorder in general)



its hard for a first world person to understand. kids here are taught to be traumatized by specific things, before it ever happens to them.

a kid in some dump country can suck richards to feed their sick mother their entire childhood. and grow up in a fine mental state. because that is the perspective.

but here, a kid gets a snake flashes at them in the park, and they are curled up in the shower stuffting themselves for months.

trauma is taught and learned.
technically the idea here isn't far-off even though the way it's presented is goofy as heck
in a less-trying-to-invalidate-people's-problems wording:
what is traumatising to an individual is highly dependent upon their perspective towards the event. if a culture views giraffes as a highly sacred animal, it'll likely be significantly more traumatising to an individual in that culture to see a giraffe hunted than it would be for an individual without that perspective. this doesn't mean that their problem is invalid because of that relativity, it's simply an acknowledgement that societies can differ in what they value and in what they view as offensive.

its hard for a first world person to understand. kids here are taught to be traumatized by specific things, before it ever happens to them.

a kid in some dump country can suck richards to feed their sick mother their entire childhood. and grow up in a fine mental state. because that is the perspective.

but here, a kid gets a snake flashes at them in the park, and they are curled up in the shower stuffting themselves for months.

trauma is taught and learned.
oh forget off. Someone getting a snake flashed at them is not traumatic. Having a man that you trusted forcibly penatrating you (which would hurt) and then having another organism come out of you( another painful experience) IS traumatic. Stop acting like a tough guy, if you were raped as a child you'd be forgeted up by it for the rest of your life. Often times people who are loveually abused as a child grow up to be child enthusiasts. No amount of victimizing can program that into you. It's an involuntary coping mechanism by your brain. Right now yo sound like someone who's never experienced anything worse then a splinter. Think rationally for like three seconds before posting again.
sympathy, as i understand it, would not traumatize someone, so it's a good thing we weren't talking about sympathy:
Yeah you're right, sympathy wouldn't traumatized someone, that's my point. What Bisjac was describing (people treating you like a victim) would most definitely compose of comforting you and giving you psychological help. Now as I see it, patients generally don't get worse after being submitted to therapy.

oh forget off. Someone getting a snake flashed at them is not traumatic.

lol so you are the one who sets the bar then huh.

that sounds like a taught trauma XD

Someone getting a snake flashed at them is not traumatic.
Depending on the person's mental strength, it can be if enough family and psychologists and police officers come after you saying "THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE NOW TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED"

forcibly penatrating
We don't know this
This is just statutory rape; it's rape because she can't legally consent, not because she was physically forced into it.

having another organism come out of you( another painful experience)
this hasn't happened yet

if you were raped as a child you'd be forgeted up by it for the rest of your life.
yeah and people who make you go through it over and over, constantly reminding you of it and making you relive it to describe it to them don't help


also did you miss the part where an actual psychologist and not some kid on a forum told me exactly what bisjac is saying

lol so you are the one who sets the bar then huh.

that sounds like a taught trauma XD
"Lol I'll just disregard everything else you said because I can't think of a response haha XD much clever"
This is what confuses me: you think that the act of raping a child had no traumatic effects on said child correct? Then if there are no negative consequences to raping a child, does that mean you think its an okay thing to do? Is that why you came into this thread and started arguing with me? Am I insulting one of your hobbies?

Then if there are no negative consequences to raping a child, does that mean you think its an okay thing to do?

so the reason you dont rape children, is because you dont want to traumatize them?
thats nice of you.


i dont do it because its wrong. i guess that means i dont care about how children feel. im so awful -.-

Oh dear. Are we really going to resort to accusing each other of paedophilia over an argument about what causes mental trauma?

Depending on the person's mental strength, it can be if enough family and psychologists and police officers come after you saying "THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE NOW TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED"
We don't know thisthis hasn't happened yet
yeah and people who make you go through it over and over, constantly reminding you of it and making you relive it to describe it to them don't help


also did you miss the part where an actual psychologist and not some kid on a forum told me exactly what bisjac is saying
Psychiatry is essentialy working back through traumatic elements and discovering what makes them traumatic so that we may make them less traumatic. psychiatry is exactly what you are claiming to be the problem. I've never heard of a psychiatrist who DOESNT talk about his patients problems with them.

We don't know this
i'm really confused so i'll ask you directly pls don't think i'm attacking you

Quote
The girl said she had been loveually abused by her stepfather, 42-year-old Gilberto Benitez Zarate.

is the article provided in the OP falsifying the situation?

also did you miss the part where an actual psychologist and not some kid on a forum told me exactly what bisjac is saying
an psychologist wouldn't claim (not trying to say this psychologist doesn't exist, only suggesting that perhaps they were saying something slightly diff), however, that trauma doesn't exist and instead, individuals are convinced that something bad has happened to them by people randomly assuming something is traumatic (even though trauma doesn't exist as an actual human response) and convincing the person as such.

that's a fairly strange theory considering it's false? it's not outrageous to say that people can begin to believe they have a problem if they are constantly told they have one, but it's fairly goof to say trauma is exclusively or largely a result of that...

so the reason you dont rape children, is because you dont want to traumatize them?
thats nice of you.


i dont do it because its wrong. i guess that means i dont care about how children feel. im so awful -.-
It's wrong because it's damaging to the children. Breaking someone's leg is wrong because it causes then pain and dehibilitates them. If breaking someone's leg did neither of those things it wouldn't be considered wrong. That's what seperates wrong and right, the results of the action. Another basic concept that you somehow don't understand.  

generally speaking, "wrong and right" are determined by a society's own standards

things are considered deviant because people are taught that it isn't normal

it's kinda splitting hairs but it's an important re-framing that might help clarify a bit

generally speaking, "wrong and right" are determined by a society's own standards

things are considered deviant because people are taught that it isn't normal

it's kinda splitting hairs but it's an important re-framing that might help clarify a bit
aren't there some morals that are accepted worldwide, like how it's wrong to kill innocents?

aren't there some morals that are accepted worldwide, like how it's wrong to kill innocents?
yeah there are certain things like that which are fairly universal obv, though certain sub/counter-cultures may disagree

it's just useful in this context to look at it with individual societies as a reference frame