What are your reasons for believing whatever you may believe about Christianity?

[Planr]

BEFORE YOU START POSTING stuff: This is NOT a thread for flame wars or stuffposting. This is meant to be a thread where people give their honest opinions and reasons for believing or disbelieving in Christianity as opposed to Atheism. If you want to just strawman and ad-hominem your post to death in response to whatever someone else may believe then kindly see yourself to the door.

I am not going to be arguing with people in this thread about the matter, I merely want to see what people's best answers are to this subject. To that end I feel it would be most beneficial if high profile forum users who post about this sort of thing, like SeventhSandwich, Headcrab Zombie, ZombiLion and others could weigh in on this matter because I have seen some pretty well written arguments from you guys before about the reliability of Christianity VS Atheism


So I sent my brother a collection of general questions/comments about Christianity that I have heard mentioned by users on BLF before and he really liked them, and literally told me that he has been searching for people like that for a long time to talk with them about that kind of stuff.

For the record he is a Christian Apologist (a person who defends christianity debate/logic/reason-wise) and he says that he believes in Christianity because he was convinced by the evidence.

He has basically been seeking to have an honest and as-unfairly-biased discussion with Atheists but he is almost definitely not willing to pay 10 dollars just to join a lego forum to debate religion with people.

Some statements he has already made before to me and others, I want to see what you guys think about them (please give evidence for whatever you say about these things):

-"Evolution is not supported by the fossil record."
-"The intelligent design movement is based entirely on scientific evidence."
-"The LGBT movement is not for marriage equality because they do not accept child enthusiasts marrying young teenage/pre-teenage kids. They have left those people out so far."
-"The Crusades are not comparable to Islamic Terrorism because the Crusades are incompatible with Christian doctrine and teaching, while Islamic Terrorism is consistent with Islamic teaching and the example of the prophet Muhammad."
-"The existence of evil is actually proof of God’s existence. Because evil exists, that means there is a transcendant standard upon which we can judge that something is good or evil. Otherwise, evil is relative and is just an opinion."

Please tell me what your reasons are for believing what you believe (or don't believe) and be sure to share verifiable evidence to back up what you say.

[Ad Bot]

[Tetris]

i just like believing in something, and not going out of my way to attempt to disprove a religion

[Kumquat]

Good general moral codes n'd stuff

[Darryl McKoy]

and be sure to share verifiable evidence to back up what you say

The Christian standard of verifiable evidence or the scientific standard?

[ShadowsfeaR]

-"The LGBT movement is not for marriage equality because they do not accept child enthusiasts marrying young teenage/pre-teenage kids. They have left those people out so far."

What the forget does this even mean? Like, this sounds like some incredibly ironic rhetorical question, not meant to be taken seriously. Because you just can't take it seriously. It's like saying someone doesn't stand for gun ownership equality because they don't support Hardcore Gamers.

forget, the LGBT movement isn't even strictly about marriage equality, it's about being straight up treated equally, socially and legally.

[blood.fm]

Some may find my views disrespectful and/or arrogant, but I can't help but share them.

forget religion. No, no. forget the people that participate in religion. They're all stubborn starfishs who believe in nothing but what their parents tell them. Religion is like a prison, you're always going to be buttforgeted because you did something wrong, and for Christians and alike that will never change. Really, if you want to have faith in something, believe in money, or maybe hookers, something that doesn't restrict you and loving promise you a spot in this "holy land".

I'm probably going to revise this later and bring more to it. BEWARE OF EDIT.

[Darryl McKoy]

Some may find my views disrespectful and/or arrogant, but I can't help but share them.

forget religion. No, no. forget the people that participate in religion. They're all stubborn starfishs who believe in nothing but what their parents tell them. Religion is like a prison, you're always going to be buttforgeted because you did something wrong, and for Christians and alike that will never change. Really, if you want to have faith in something, believe in money, or maybe hookers, something that doesn't restrict you and loving promise you a spot in this "holy land".

I'm probably going to revise this later and bring more to it. BEWARE OF EDIT.

I'm anti-religion because my brother got pretty messed up by it. He's gay and has always been (and still is) quite religious (christian). The church he was attending convinced him that he had an illness and started trying to 'fix' him, making him sit through sessions that were aimed at de-gaying him. In the end it obviously didn't work, but just left him at odds with who he was as a person. I'm lucky he's still alive tbh because there are plenty of kids who go through the same thing and come out the other end having killed themselves.

With all that said, I still think there are people in the world who do need religion or SOMETHING to keep themselves afloat. There are those out there who are not mentally stable enough to face the fact that life is fleeting and we're all headed towards the void.

[Lurker]

forget christians. There are two christian guys at our school that preach about how America made the worst decision by legalising gay marriage in all 50 states. I asked why that is a problem and they said "gay marriage is unnatural so it shouldn't be allowed"

Rly

[Kumquat]

I dont give a stuff if two gay dudes want to reap the legal benefits of being married.
However why they need a minister and all that jazz to do it legally is beyond me.

[Blockchip]

The Christian standard of verifiable evidence or the scientific standard?

In my opinion, that is a stupid question.

[Darryl McKoy]

In my opinion, that is a stupid question.

Why do you think that?

[Katadeus]

I feel like the argument for the fossil record not supporting evolution is pretty pathetic at this point. I have no issue with Christianity when it is practiced in such a way as to not interfere with non-believers' lives in any way.
While there may be some construed evidence for intelligent design, it remains an argument based off of a starting point. Evidence collected to support a hypothesis creates bias. Hypotheses formulated from evidence without a preexisting ideology are much closer to impartiality.
child enthusiasm is not a part of the whole marriage equality thing is because it's not an issue of two consenting adults. It's problematic because even if consent appears to exist, a young mind is likely too malleable and immature to be able to properly process a relationship of that kind, and come to an individual decision. Children are conditioned to trust and obey adults. Even if some younger people are capable of making an independent decision, it's not safe to assume that they all can. Not to mention that mutual respect cannot truly exist when one party has not reached maturity. child enthusiasts are not pursuing a relationship; they are pursuing a special interest. In gay/lesbian relationships, it's perfectly possible for respect to exist in both directions, and quite likely more understanding.
Islam is as much as Christianity is a peaceful religion. There is no substantial teaching of violence in it. The Islam that exists to terrorize people is born out of a desperate people following charismatic psychopaths. Ask a Muslim and they will tell you this, just as a Christian will tell you that they don't approve of the Crusades. If it is fair for you to characterize them by terrorism, it is fair for them to characterize you as the same.
I don't think I stand a chance of convincing you otherwise on the last point; my argument for that isn't exactly eloquent.
EDIT: OOH, but what I can say about that is that a standard of good and evil certainly isn't exclusive to Christianity. I don't like the logic you use in the first place, but even if one follows it, it's not "evil => morals, morals => god."
But even if that were the case, why would some people think some things are good and some things are evil? Is any person that believes that something evil is good evil for a singular misplaced belief? Can you say that they were lead astray if their moral code is purely personal? Is there even the slightest chance that the reason that good and evil are a perception of humanity's is that supporting one's fellows and having distaste for doing otherwise is beneficial to the human race as a whole? Do animals not help one another? Do they have a sense of good and evil? If so, why don't all animals share a sense of good and evil?
Questions are dangerous things.

While I'm going at forgetin questions, pose him this. Is it possible that your certitude in your religion is in any way aided by it having surrounded you, particularly from people who you would trust to always tell you the truth?

[Machaty]

I'm going to try to keep this brief, as I could easily write a novel on the subject. The bible does not make logical sense, meaning that the events described within could not have happened. (Noah's ark for example, has no backing what so ever in reality. Further more, it isn't even an original story, as it was a part of the epic of Gilgamesh.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh) Historically, the bible makes even less sense. Again, portions of the bible were simply taken from other scriptures. Including but not limited to the story of Jesus. Here is a quote from Gerald Massey: " I've discovered nearly two hundred instances of immediate correspondence between the mythical Egyptian material and the allegedly historical Christian writings about Jesus. Horus indeed was the archetypal Pagan Christ." Even the existence of Jesus has no substantial support beyond the gospel and a few other religious texts. Now finally, the bible makes the absolute least amount of moral sense. In the Old Testament it says a whole mess of horrible things. Condoning slavery, murder, and stonings is a just a few of them. Even the less horrible stuff is still horribly irrelevant. Did you know that it's against gods will to wear a shirt made out of two different types of fabric? A book written hundreds of years ago often has little to no relevance to our lives today. Now you could say that when Jesus was sacrificed, the Old Testament became null. That's fine, but just know that Jesus condoned slavery, and he also never said anything about being gay. So for the people that don't follow every rule in the Old Testament, as i'm sure most people don't, by your own admission you cannot say that being gay is immoral. I also agree with the posts above describing how destructive a Christian life style can be sometimes. My ex-girlfriends parents were borderline abusive to their children, shaming them for not being religious enough, for having gay friends, for "dishonoring" their parents. Both of their daughters have anorexia and severe confidence problems. But they still preach the "holier than thou" philosophy. It's a cycle in which authority and tradition is accepted over fact and reason.

TL;DR: Christianity doesn't make rational, historical, or moral sense.

[Rally]

I'll be real: the biggest reason I'm a Christian is based purely on fear and guilt. If I denounced Christianity in-front of my parents, I fear it'll have an incredibly negative impact on my family life. stuff's been drilled into me since I was a kid, and I'm terrified stuffless of going to "hell", whether or not it exists, so I go with Christianity to try and maximize my chances of not going there. So don't take this as me trying to convince you of anything, and I humbly request that you respect the efforts I try to go to in order to justify this to myself to achieve some peace of mind. I wake up every day doubting and trying to justify my belief in Christianity.

And so I've come up with a few ways.
- I tell myself that the Bible was written by men. I believe a lot of these men were inspired by deities to write portions of this book, but I believe the book may have been exploited or inaccurate in many areas. The holy spirit does not have a pen, God himself did not write the holy book. So as far as human error goes, this allows me to dismiss most of the inaccuracies in the Bible that supposedly "disprove" Christianity. Surely God would understand the inquisitive nature of the humans he created, so criticism of the Bible shouldn't be too taboo.

- This also allows me to fit the Bible in alongside scientific research. You wont see me dismissing any scientific claims or discoveries as "devil science" or some bullstuff to try and maintain Christianity. Instead, I try and find a way to make it work. '7 days' to God doesn't have to mean 7 days to me. The creation of humans does not have to be *poof* suddenly we exist, I can totally get behind theories of evolution and natural selection. God wrote the universe in math at the fundamental, physical level. He may of fine-tuned it to allow the best circumstances for his progeny, but he still ultimately allowed nature to take it's course. We didn't HAVE to come from nothing.

- The way I justify this is: why are fundamental physical values exactly what they are? How come one light second is exactly 299792.458 kilometres? And not 299793 kilometres or 299791 kilometres? What was the reasoning behind such a hard-coded value, and how would this be beneficial to the existence of the universe or reality in general? Who put this value in place and why? This could be an indicator of intelligent design.

- Some other justifications are a bit romantic, like the intricacy and beauty of the universe itself. To me, for something as awe inspiring as a red hyper giant to exist in the same world where tiny insect communities exist on our planet in the form of ant mounds, some kind of intelligent design must have been utilized. The golden ratio and such. I don't really know how to explain it, but hopefully you can sorta understand what I'm talking about here.

[kyle222]

id love to believe that after you die, there is somewhere you go to to be judged and such
that consciousness continues

but i dont