Author Topic: [DATA] political issues and your stances on them - BORDER SECURITY, IMMIGRANTS  (Read 12102 times)

I know far too little on these topics to make anything near an informed decision.

Minimum Wage

I believe the minimum wage is at a good place in the UK, neeidng only to rise with inflation.
As for the American minimum wage, my understanding is that at a national level, it is very low (although over half of the states have a minimum wage set higher than the national minimum).
$7.25 an hour, the national minimum, is equal to £4.82 an hour. In the UK, national minimum wage for 21+ year olds, is £6.70, or $10.08.

I know there's a price on small businesses for increasing the minimum wage, but £4.82 doesn't sound anywhere near livable on, from my perspective as a UK citizen. That's less than 18-20 year olds earn, and only £1 more than under 18s earn.

Trade Unions
I am sort of undecided on Unions.
I think it is good to have some power as a worker to defend your rights.

However, I know that Unions cause a lot of issues, sometimes unfairly.
The amount of times schooling has been cancelled because of teaher strikes during my education is ridiculous. Especially when teachers are on a better wage than many others.
I also don't like the idea that the country can be left without police, paramedics or firefighters, which has happened in the past.

I'm not sure I would sign up to a trade union when I am employed.

Farm Subsidies
I am undecided on this.
I know far too little on the matter.

All I can say is, if a farm is regularly being subsidised, then what's the point in carrying on if it doesn't make any profit?
Especially if most of its crop is being exported.

I understand that farms can often do poorly because other nations can produce more at a cheaper price, and so we import that.
I think rather than subsidising farmers for not being profitable enough, we should maybe try to limit our imports, or put larger taxes upon them.
Simply subsidising farms isn't going to help them dominate the market again. We need to give them a more equal footing in the market.

minimum wage shouldn't be raised
trade unions should be private organizations
farmers shouldn't be subsidized

Minimum wage is not livable, yeah, but that's not the problem. The problem is people trying to make a living on minimum wage.
We need to look at solutions like better education, to get people away from minimum wage jobs

Raise the minimum wage, the standard of living is too high for the current wages to be livable of off. Not everyone is capable of getting a livable job(mentally handicapped, migrants, dropouts, released prisoners). College is expensive, too bureaucratic, and full of stupid standards(general education).

Unions are a love hate thing. They do give the lowly worker a voice against powerful manage, however sometimes the unions become too powerful and demanding.

Farms: The price of crops are controlled by the government to point where it's not profitable. Let's face it though, who wants to pay 100 bucks for a gallon of milk when the government keep it affordable for the common man. While it's true that a lot of your grocery store products often come from other places in the world, there are plenty of crops that you wont find in bulk anywhere else or crops that can lost long enough to be shipped without spoiling.

I recall 90% of the world's almonds being grown in California. Almonds are a big industry for California Farmers. They are pretty popular in the Asian market for export. California also has a large grape industry, try finding that in some other part of the world. You also have livestock, meats what have yeah. Raw meat requires refrigeration to preserve and no way can it survive a trip oversees to the us.

In addition to that a lot of communities are dependent on agriculture for their local economies. My city has several agriculture based industry. For example we have a goat milk plant that bottles goat milk, we have a poultry plant that packages chickens and turkeys, the grocery stores have their own butchers for cattle and pork. There's a cheese factory near by that relies on local dairy and several grain and animal feed plants that run along the rail way lines.

If we just stopped subsidizing this, all those companies like the railway shipping companies like Santa Fe and Union Pacific would get forgeted over, trucking companies would also get screwed. Communities like Stockton, Modesto, Turlock, Merced, etc would end up dying as well. Most of the people that live in the valley work some job related to agriculture(many of which are immigrants too mind you). The irrigation companies that manage the cbrown towns for shipping water would also be out of business, they also run the hydroelectric dams.

Other than that, there are some other jobs like school district jobs, some government jobs like politician government worker, and police. There are also niche jobs like doctors, mechanics, lawyers, etc. If you work none of those field, you have to commute everyday to the bay area to work some white collar job. However look at Detroit, if you lose your main industry, your community will die and all those jobs unrelated to that industry will go with it. Plus this is just California I'm talking about, think about the damage to communities in other states. Lot of people will flock to other cities, that is for sure.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 12:23:19 PM by Harm94 »


My questions to you, OT, are these: Where do you stand on minimum wage? Are you in favor of raising it, or keeping it the same? Do you support the idea of a federally standardized minimum wage (minimum wage is stable across all states instead of on a state-by-state basis)?
I think that there should be a minimum wage, but raising it substantially across the board will cause a spike in unemployment. Maybe there should be some incentive for big businesses (who could raise minimum paychecks and not have to lay anyone off) to pay people a reasonable wage. 

My questions to you, OT, are these: Where do you stand on unions? Do you think unions contribute to the economy, or take away from it? Do you support workers being guaranteed safe working conditions, a fair wage, and/or appropriate healthcare options?
Unions are a good thing, but some of the people who run and organize unions are bad people. Let's just say pro-union since we're arguing between having unions or having no unions.

My questions to you, OT, are these: Where do you stand on farm subsidies? Do you support farm subsidy programs, or no? Do you think these subsidies should be changed into loans (farmers will be required to repay the money given to them? Should the government implement measures to evaluate who should receive subsidies and who should not?
Don't have a strong opinion on it.

We need to look at solutions like better education, to get people away from minimum wage jobs
This isn't a viable answer until we've got robots flipping burgers and mopping high school gyms.

This isn't a viable answer until we've got robots flipping burgers and mopping high school gyms.
Low pay, unskilled jobs are still needed, yeah, but a lot of those jobs can be given to high school and college kids.
There may be some older people needed, but that point is that trying to get a fast food restaurant to pay a wage high enough to support a parent and their kids isn't viable either.

So give those jobs to high school and college kids
We can't 'give jobs' to anyone. Private businesses handle their own staffing.

We can't 'give jobs' to anyone. Private businesses handle their own staffing.
I think you knew what I meant?
There's plenty of high school and college age kids available for these jobs that the "we'd need robots to cover those jobs if we moved the adults away" idea isn't completely accurate

Businesses will always hire the best candidate, yes, and as long as adults are applying, they'll oftentimes be the best candidate simply due to more experience.
But the problem is why are so many adults applying for these positions?
The root problem here isn't "I should be able to support my family by working at McDonalds's"
It's "I need a better job"
and that's what needs to be focused on. An increase of a dollar, maybe two, isn't going to kill as much, but trying to raise minimum wage pay to the amount that can support a family is just too huge of an increase.

Do you support the idea of a federally standardized minimum wage (minimum wage is stable across all states instead of on a state-by-state basis)?[/b][/color]
There already is a federal minimum wage. Individual states can set one higher than that, but they can't go lower.
Trying to say "You can't set a minimum higher than the federal" is silly

high school and college students aren't a reliable source of labor
not only are they not available everywhere, there are many times of day when they can't work. during school, for example. or in the middle of the night
many janitors work at night, and almost every big fast food chain is open 24 hours a day
and there's other jobs, for example factory work, waste management, or animal control, that kids are either incapable of doing or unwilling
people still have to do these jobs, and it isn't reasonable for kids to do them. you can't just fix the world by saying "educate everyone"

high school and college students aren't a reliable source of labor
not only are they not available everywhere, there are many times of day when they can't work. during school, for example. or in the middle of the night
many janitors work at night, and almost every big fast food chain is open 24 hours a day
I didn't say they'd cover it entirely, just that it would be a sizable amount.

and there's other jobs, for example factory work, waste management, or animal control, that kids are either incapable of doing or unwilling
These examples aren't minimum wage, though. They're actually very livable pay. My dad makes $20something/hr working manufacturing, and google gives me 26.96/hr and 32k/yr averages for the other two; more than anyone is arguing for a minimum wage of.

you can't just fix the world by saying "educate everyone"
I'm not saying that.
But it is part of the problem.


The truth is nobody really has the answer. Yes, someone needs to do these jobs, but the people doing them need to accept that they're just not going to be making as much as someone who went to college. It's an unfortunate truth, but that's just how labor works. These jobs pay less because there's more people to do them, it's an application of supply and demand, one of (the?) most basic concepts of economics.

Now, an increase of a dollar, maybe two, might not hurt, as it would give consumers more spending power that would theoretically go back to the companies paying it, and I'm not arguing against that.
But some people are demanding $15+/hr. An increase of more than double the current minimum wage is just too much at once.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 03:22:15 PM by Headcrab Zombie »

These examples aren't minimum wage, though. They're actually very livable pay. My dad makes $20something/hr working manufacturing, and google gives me 26.96/hr and 32k/yr averages for the other two.
what does your dad do? everyone doing assembly in the factory I work in gets paid minimum wage until they get a raise or promotion
I'm not sure about the other two
in either case it will depend on the company or city you work for, its location, and what you're doing. like, I doubt the people picking up trash on the side of the interstate in a small town make a lot of money

what does your dad do? everyone doing assembly in the factory I work in gets paid minimum wage until they get a raise or promotion
I'm not sure what specifically he does but he works for a company that makes steel tubing

everyone doing assembly in the factory I work in gets paid minimum wage until they get a raise or promotion
Ok yeah i just googled it and at $11.82/hr, it's significantly less than he makes
still a few dollars more than current minimum, though

like, I doubt the people picking up trash on the side of the interstate in a small town make a lot of money
"Waste management" I mostly think of garbage trucks and stuff. I suppose that might be part of it? I don't know.
Picking trash up along side roads is managed some (no idea what %, though) by volunteers. I have no idea what % is done by this, but I see this signs everywhere.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 03:22:50 PM by Headcrab Zombie »

Minimum wage is a solution to a problem, but is another problem in itself.

Some small businesses cannot scrape by as is, so they'll have to fire people. Of course, on the other hand, people can't live without the government giving them money.
Either way people have a crappy scenerio.

Unions are good in the sense that there is a better representation of workers, but Unions have, really, gone out of control. You really cannot fire senior employees because of Unions, or you'll get sued. You can't, practically, reform the police because of the Police Union who lobbies.

Both of these are problems that were inevitably created by the rich: 1) they didn't pay their workers enough and 2) unsafe work environment.

Where do you stand on minimum wage? Are you in favor of raising it, or keeping it the same? Do you support the idea of a federally standardized minimum wage (minimum wage is stable across all states instead of on a state-by-state basis)?

A jump in minimum wage is another way of basically saying that you're going to raise the cost of living. All it does is drive up costs and make it harder for low income families to survive and makes smaller businesses to suffer. No family should be living off of minimum wage alone anyways. Also, minimum wage shouldn't be centralized, it needs to be mandated state by state because each state has a different cost of living (accounting for taxes, environment, etc).

Where do you stand on unions? Do you think unions contribute to the economy, or take away from it? Do you support workers being guaranteed safe working conditions, a fair wage, and/or appropriate healthcare options?

On the fence, in one instance they can actually lead to safer environments and better wages, but in other instances they can be a nuisance. I believe that workers do have the right to have a safe environment to work in and a wage that will not undercut them. Healthcare depends on the company, if you work in a higher on more risk taking position, it would seem to me that you would have the option there.

Where do you stand on farm subsidies? Do you support farm subsidy programs, or no? Do you think these subsidies should be changed into loans (farmers will be required to repay the money given to them? Should the government implement measures to evaluate who should receive subsidies and who should not?

Farms our a staple to survival, without them we can survive in a country that isn't self-sufficient. If needed, keeping them alive financially is in the best interest of all. Loans are debatable, because sometimes a loan isn't enough, especially in disaster ridden areas. A firm bureaucracy could help with determining those who need it and those who don't, but with a bureaucracy you take a risk of inefficiency, so on the fence with that.