11 Injured, 3 dead in Colorado abortion clinic shooting, gunman arrested

[sir dooble]

Unchristened/baptised babies go to hell because they have yet to be cleansed of their original sin.

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[Planr]

So you're literally saying "If the child dies, oh well, kill the mother too."
"Nothing wrong with that."

Yeah, not like the mother has the right to life too. Let's totally forget about that.

Nice strawman, but no, that's not what I said. I said if the child dies in childbirth, then that's just how it is. If the mother dies too, then that's also how it is. A righteous and honorable mother would die to save the life of her child. Children have just as much a right to live as their parents do.

Unchristened/baptised babies go to hell because they have yet to be cleansed of their original sin.

As far as I know that is not a biblically supported position. That sounds a lot like a catholic church doctrine you're talking about, actually.

[Nickpb 2.0]

Nice strawman, but no, that's not what I said. I said if the child dies in childbirth, then that's just how it is. If the mother dies too, then that's also how it is. A righteous and honorable mother would die to save the life of her child. Children have just as much a right to live as their parents do.

and if this mother doesn't believe in your god they don't?

[sir dooble]

A righteous and honorable mother would die to save the life of her child.

Even if her dying was guaranteed not to have any impact on the childs chances of surviving? She should just die with her child, even though she could survive and have another child, or raise the children she may already have?

[Oasis]

Nice strawman, but no, that's not what I said. I said if the child dies in childbirth, then that's just how it is. If the mother dies too, then that's also how it is. A righteous and honorable mother would die to save the life of her child. Children have just as much a right to live as their parents do.
As far as I know that is not a biblically supported position. That sounds a lot like a catholic church doctrine you're talking about, actually.

What if the child's life cannot be saved? A "righteous and honorable" human being would move on and continue to live the life that god gifted them, yes?

[Ipquarx]

Nice strawman, but no, that's not what I said. I said if the child dies in childbirth, then that's just how it is. If the mother dies too, then that's also how it is. A righteous and honorable mother would die to save the life of her child. Children have just as much a right to live as their parents do.

It's not a strawman at all because almost exclusively the only scenarios in which a parent would die are ones in which the baby dies too. The majority of the time, they can save the mother. If they know the baby is going to die anyway there's absolutely no reason to force it to stay alive longer and end up killing two lives instead of one. There are exceptions, but they're by far the minority. It's statistically stupid and will end up killing more people than it saves.

[Planr]

and if this mother doesn't believe in your god they don't?

What I will say is that I believe the Christian God is the only true and real god that actually exists, and that based on the teachings of biblical Christianity, anyone who willingly rejects Jesus will not see eternal life with Jesus. So if a mother giving birth to a child is someone who's willingly rejecting Jesus, and she dies, then she will face God's judgement.

Even if her dying was guaranteed not to have any impact on the childs chances of surviving?

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are asking here. Are you asking if a mother should die in childbirth if it guaranteed her child would live? To answer that question, I'd say another question must first be asked: If the mother was to not die, does the child still have a chance at surviving childbirth? Even if the doctors were to guarantee the child was going to die, a righteous mother would trust God regardless, and not choose to abort her child.

What if the child's life cannot be saved? A "righteous and honorable" human being would move on and continue to live the life that god gifted them, yes?

See how I answered Nick above.

It's not a strawman at all because almost exclusively the only scenarios in which a parent would die are ones in which the baby dies too. The majority of the time, they can save the mother. If they know the baby is going to die anyway there's absolutely no reason to force it to stay alive longer and end up killing two lives instead of one. There are exceptions, but they're by far the minority. It's statistically stupid and will end up killing more people than it saves.

It was a strawman because you misquoted what I said in order to make my position easier to attack. You said:

So you're literally saying "If the child dies, oh well, kill the mother too."
"Nothing wrong with that."

Just looking at what you said there, it seems very clear to me that you were implying I was saying we should kill mothers if their child dies in childbirth. Which to me is just as wrong as choosing to kill the child.

[shitlord]

jesus planr
its the mothers decision

[HellHound]

I think we can all agree here that religion is far more dangerous to people's lives than abortion.

[sir dooble]

You said a righteous and honourable mother would die for her child to live.
I am asking if that is true even if there is no chance the child will survive birth, and the birth would kill the mother. Should the mother go through with the birth and die, even though the child is definitely not going to live?

Instead, she could abort the baby, and she will live. The baby is definitely going to die either way (for example, malformed body, missing vital organs).

[Planr]

You said a righteous and honourable mother would die for her child to live.
I am asking if that is true even if there is no chance the child will survive birth, and the birth would kill the mother. Should the mother go through with the birth and die, even though the child is definitely not going to live?

Instead, she could abort the baby, and she will live. The baby is definitely going to die either way (for example, malformed body, missing vital organs).

Then what I said in my previous post should help answer your question:

Even if the doctors were to guarantee the child was going to die, a righteous mother would trust God regardless, and not choose to abort her child.

Only God really knows whether or not the child is going to die. He is capable of saving the child's life, and I believe that he does save the child spiritually, if the child dies. If the mother chooses to abort, it means she is trusting the doctor more than she trusts God.

[shitlord]

Only God really knows whether or not the child is going to die. If the mother chooses to abort, it means she is trusting the doctor more than she trusts God.

whats the issue here
put your faith in scientifically proven methods from a medical professional, or a higher being that you cant prove exists?

[Electrk.]

Only God really knows whether or not the child is going to die. If the mother chooses to abort, it means she is trusting the doctor more than she trusts God.

ok

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

Only God really knows whether or not the child is going to die. If the mother chooses to abort, it means she is trusting the doctor more than she trusts God.

you are delusional

[Oasis]

You said a righteous and honourable mother would die for her child to live.
I am asking if that is true even if there is no chance the child will survive birth, and the birth would kill the mother. Should the mother go through with the birth and die, even though the child is definitely not going to live?

Instead, she could abort the baby, and she will live. The baby is definitely going to die either way (for example, malformed body, missing vital organs).

You know what, lets stop beating around the hypothetical bush.

Planr, your world view is messed up. People have the right to choose what to do with their own body, and if anything is more sacred to you than the life of an actual person, someone who has actually lived within their own body and not within the confines of their mother, then forget it, you won't be persuaded and we should all stop trying. Clearly your ignorance will follow you for the rest of your life, so try not to hurt anyone but yourself.