[NEWS] Feminists chant Allahu Akbar.

[Red Spy]

we should kill all the muslims and prove christians* are the religion of peace

[Ad Bot]

[SeventhSandwich]

Where did I say this?

It's just an implicit bias. You didn't say it anywhere.

you mean the unverified and debunked myth that the US army distributed smallpox infected blankets?

I did some searching on that, and it doesn't look like it's debunked. There's a couple of fringe sources, but the same can be said about the holocaust and the moon-landing.

[Red Spy]

Do you actually believe the same people who killed people for being witches also knew about stuff like viruses and how they spread

[beachbum111111]

It's just an implicit bias. You didn't say it anywhere.

Except I even said compare the amount of religious crimes going on in Sub Saharan Africa to the amount of religious crimes going on in the Middle East.

I did some searching on that, and it doesn't look like it's debunked. There's a couple of fringe sources, but the same can be said about the holocaust and the moon-landing.

I guess when I said "debunked" I meant "there are no sources or records that it ever happened".

[Nonnel]

it's pretty safe to assume smallpox was brought over and spread by accident

[beachbum111111]

it's pretty safe to assume smallpox was brought over and spread by accident

I mean you would be a fool to deny that. I think Seventh was more referencing the remnants of the natives and saying that the US and other colonists intentionally tried to infect the natives. Which, even if they did, 97% of the native population was already wiped out by them.

[SeventhSandwich]

Do you actually believe the same people who killed people for being witches also knew about stuff like viruses and how they spread

People understood to a rough extent that being near sick people got other people sick. It's not rocket science either - you don't need modern epidemiology to notice that the first people who get sick during a small-pox epidemic all live in the same household.

I guess when I said "debunked" I meant "there are no sources or records that it ever happened".

During Pontiac's uprising in 1763, the Indians besieged Fort Pitt. They burned nearby houses, forcing the inhabitants to take refuge in the well-protected fort. The British officer in charge, Captain Simeon Ecuyer, reported to Colonel Henry Bouquet in Philadelphia that he feared the crowded conditions would result in disease. Smallpox had already broken out. On June 24, 1763, William Trent, a local trader, recorded in his journal that two Indian chiefs had visited the fort, urging the British to abandon the fight, but the British refused. Instead, when the Indians were ready to leave, Trent wrote: "Out of our regard for them, we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."

(source)

it's pretty safe to assume smallpox was brought over and spread by accident

Yes, but there is absolutely evidence that germ warfare was used in some capacity.

[beachbum111111]

People understood to a rough extent that being near sick people got other people sick. It's not rocket science either - you don't need modern epidemiology to notice that the first people who get sick during a small-pox epidemic all live in the same household.
(source)
Mostly, but there is absolutely evidence that germ warfare was used in some capacity.

A smallpox epidemic swept the St. Lawrence and Ohio river areas all the way to Ft. Duquesne in 1755-56. This shows that the siege of Ft. Pitt is not the origin of smallpox in the area.
Source: Breaking the Backcountry: The Seven Years' War in Virginia and Pennsylvania by Matthew C. Ward

[SeventhSandwich]

A smallpox epidemic swept the St. Lawrence and Ohio river areas all the way to Ft. Duquesne in 1755-56. This shows that the siege of Ft. Pitt is not the origin of smallpox in the area.

Again, it doesn't need to be the source of an epidemic to count as germ warfare, but needless to say we're off-course here. The original reason we were talking about smallpox was because Christians played a role in its introduction, but it's true that the epidemic would have happened intentionally or not.

What I would say is like, if 99% of the current population of the USA was wiped out by a pandemic, and then Muslim settlers started coming over and conquering our former land, would you honestly not characterize that as an 'Islamic Conquest'?

[beachbum111111]

Again, it doesn't need to be the source of an epidemic to count as germ warfare, but needless to say we're off-course here. The original reason we were talking about smallpox was because Christians played a role in its introduction, but it's true that the epidemic would have happened intentionally or not.

What I would say is like, if 99% of the current population of the USA was wiped out by a pandemic, and then Muslim settlers started coming over and conquering our former land, would you honestly not characterize that as an 'Islamic Conquest'?

It depends. Is it a bunch of loving Albanians trying to start a colonial empire for trade or is it a jihad in the name of Allah?

But okay lets say that it doesn't matter and either way it's religions fault. The christian colonial powers still killed less then the muslims did of the time. Hell even if that smallpox epidemic in the seven years war was caused by colonists, muslims still killed more. If you look at South America and Mexico what do you see? They are not Spanish, the majority of those countries are Mestizo (mixed race), some (Bolivia) have a majority of pure native population.

[SeventhSandwich]

It depends. Is it a bunch of loving Albanians trying to start a colonial empire for trade or is it a jihad in the name of Allah?

The first American colonists were definitely religiously motivated, although they weren't coming for war.

   In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France, and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith, etc.

    Having undertaken for the Glory of God and advancement of the Christian Faith and Honour of our King and Country, a Voyage to plant the First Colony in the Northern Parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, Covenant and Combine ourselves together in a Civil Body Politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape Cod, the 11th of November, in the year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord King James, of England, France and Ireland the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini 1620.

The christian colonial powers still killed less then the muslims did of the time. Hell even if that smallpox epidemic in the seven years war was caused by colonists, muslims still killed more. If you look at South America and Mexico what do you see? They are not Spanish, the majority of those countries are Mestizo (mixed race), some (Bolivia) have a majority of pure native population.

The data are pretty much irrelevant because even if we come up with a completely fair standard for what constitutes 'religious violence', the raw numbers are still gonna be within an order of magnitude. The take-away here isn't "their religion is x% more violent than ours!", it's "violence is a complicated thing that isn't predicted solely by religious scripture."

[beachbum111111]

The first American colonists were definitely religiously motivated, although they weren't coming for war.

So were the spanish. What about the rest of my post?

[Red Spy]

The Spanish were loving cool

[beachbum111111]

The Spanish were loving cool

Make Mexico Spain Again. Restore the Spanish Monarchy (but no habsburgs this time)

[SeventhSandwich]

The Spanish were loving cool

They religiously persecuted the Native Americans and established probably the most brutal form of forced labor in American history, motivated by their 'god-given' mandate to conquer. I like how you guys rail off endlessly about Muslims driving trucks into crowds, but Spanish encomienda is 'loving cool'.

gg