Author Topic: Catalonia's independence movement died before it started  (Read 50880 times)


In reality between 35 and 50% of Catalonians are in favor of independence (as I read it in the Wall Street Journal).  The high favor in the voting booth stems in part from major leaders in the anti-independence camp discouraging participation in the vote because they feel that participation would legitimize the vote itself (and therefore the result), a point they and the central government of Spain haven't ceded.

if you choose to not take part in a democratic choice, then your say on the matter isn't relevant when the time comes to decide.

if you choose to not take part in a democratic choice, then your say on the matter isn't relevant when the time comes to decide.
this is true. not voting in something like that to avoid "legitimizing the vote" is kind of risky. what if this vote is legitimized and taken seriously? the anti-independent parties would be straight out of luck because they didn't even try, then. better to just bomb the polls with "No". if plethora/WSJ is correct, they didn't vote when the time came, and that's their own fault--not the fault of the independence-seekers

step up and vote or shut up and don't, basically


if you choose to not take part in a democratic choice, then your say on the matter isn't relevant when the time comes to decide.
I don't disagree.

if plethora/WSJ is correct
I'll try to find some sources.

They should be allowed to actually vote on it. Half the people walked out before the vote. Spain shouldn't interfere.


I'll try to find some sources.

I believe I've found the actual opinion poll in independence/a referendum conducted in June HERE.  It also shows the change of opinion over the last few years, which is handy.
Look at this if nothing else.

WSJ:
"While the legal steps that Mr. Rajoy is set to take could serve to momentarily rein in Catalan leaders, support for a split with Spain among voters in the region is unlikely to fade. Around 35% of Catalans support independence, according to the most recent poll this past summer by the region’s survey agency."

From another WSJ article:
"According to a poll by Catalonia’s regional government survey agency in June, 35% of Catalans support full-fledged independence, down from a peak in 2013 of around 50%."

BBC:
"Angered by having their autonomy watered down as well as by years of recession and cuts in public spending, Catalans held an unofficial vote on independence in November 2014. More than two million of the region's 5.4 million eligible voters took part and officials declared that 80% had backed secession."

From the same article:
"Opinion polls are hard to come by but the clearest indication before the referendum came in July, when a public survey commissioned by the Catalan government suggested 41% were in favour and 49% were opposed to independence.
We know that 2.2 million voters backed independence in the previous vote in November 2014, and that coalition of separatist parties called Junts pel Si (Together for Yes), with the support of a radical left-wing party, the CUP, won 48% of the vote in 2015 elections."

if you choose to not take part in a democratic choice, then your say on the matter isn't relevant when the time comes to decide.
this, and also, it's likely that spain's authoritarian attempts to suppress the vote - and now revoke catalonia's rights to self-governance - probably pushed a lot of people towards the pro-independence side


civil war starts when

i find it cute that idiots say "well us independence wasnt legal either" and totally gloss over the 9 year war of independence that was fought as a result

i find it cute that idiots say "well us independence wasnt legal either" and totally gloss over the 9 year war of independence that was fought as a result
and the war happened because britain didn't give the US independence; the responsibility is entirely british
similarly, if there's a civil war over this, it's spain's fault

i find it cute that idiots say "well us independence wasnt legal either" and totally gloss over the 9 year war of independence that was fought as a result
so they should have to have a war to declare independence?? the forget are you talking about?

i find it cute that idiots say "well us independence wasnt legal either" and totally gloss over the 9 year war of independence that was fought as a result
why are you against catalan independence