Catalonia's independence movement died before it started

[Kearn]

and the war happened because britain didn't give the US independence; the responsibility is entirely british
similarly, if there's a civil war over this, it's spain's fault

til constitutions are meaningless and you can declare yourself not subject to your nation's laws on a whim

so they should have to have a war to declare independence?? the forget are you talking about?

if they expect to be an independent nation they should earn their independence through force or do it under the laws of the nation they are separating from. that is how it has always worked and how it always will work.

why are you against catalan independence

because they're a bunch of delusional wackadoodles with no respect for spain's constitution or processes

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[Nonnel]

so the americans were a bunch of wackadoodles with no """"respect"""" for britain's law before they fought

Spain should have respected the democratic process and let it happen instead of brutalizing Catalan citizens who tried to vote

[TristanLuigi]

if they expect to be an independent nation they should earn their independence through force or do it under the laws of the nation they are separating from. that is how it has always worked and how it always will work.

What the forget is wrong with you? Human rights should not have to be earned by force, they should be granted willingly. Your argument sounds a lot like "might makes right."

Constitutions exist to protect people from states, not the opposite; "constitutions" that do the opposite are meaningless.

[SWAT One]

Ah the "might makes right" approach.

The reason why Catalan people should have Independence is because a significant portion of them voted as such.

Do you even understand what a social contract is?

[HellHound]

whenever a state of the United States says that they are considering leaving the union, everybody seems ok with it. why is it suddenly a big deal that Catalonia does not want to be part of Spain?

[Kearn]

Human rights should not have to be earned by force

what human rights are being violated here exactly?

[Nonnel]

what human rights are being violated here exactly?

The people whom Spain ordered national police to brutalize???

[Kearn]

so catalonia is subject to police suppression that only resulted when they tried to declare independence because of police suppression that didnt happen before they declared independence because of police suppression

ok

[TristanLuigi]

what human rights are being violated here exactly?

self-determination, democratic governance, not bring beat up by police just because they're trying to vote

so catalonia is subject to police suppression that only resulted when they tried to declare independence because of police suppression that didnt happen before they declared independence because of police suppression

ok

if it wasn't justified before, it sure as hell is now

[Nonnel]

I mean as it stands you would be rooting for Britain to crush that pesky American rebellion right now

[Kearn]

self-determination, democratic governance, not bring beat up by police just because they're trying to vote

ok so you would necessarily say the confederacy's right to determination was violated by the US then

dont give me that crap about democratic governance, they were already an autonomous region within spain which is more than can be said for most of the rest of spain

[Nonnel]

They wanted freedom so they could own human beings so... no

[Kearn]

ah so self-determination is only valid if you agree with them ok cool

[TristanLuigi]

ok so you would necessarily say the confederacy's right to determination was violated by the US then

as I said before, the rights of people are superior to the rights of states
the CSA wasn't about self-determination, it was about retaining slavery - and many Confederate leaders stated this outright

dont give me that crap about democratic governance, they were already an autonomous region within spain which is more than can be said for most of the rest of spain

they loving beat up people trying to vote and now the Spanish government is trying to replace the Catalan one

ah so self-determination is only valid if you agree with them ok cool

are you being daft on purpose

also:

so the americans were a bunch of wackadoodles with no """"respect"""" for britain's law before they fought

you never responded to this

[HellHound]

ok so you would necessarily say the confederacy's right to determination was violated by the US then

yes, the right to self-determine whether or not certain groups of people should be treated as property..