Three white nationalists arrested after firing at crowd of counter-protestors

[SWAT One]

how

Because the moment that violence as a solution is a mass-accepted political process, we lose our democratic process. And in this scenario, I don't care how happy you'd be about who was punched, because wherever democracy isn't, whatever government is in place will not care about your opinion, only whether or not you are acting in line with what they want. Both you and I would be without a vote and only those who sought to leave the democratic process and the 1^st Amendment right to petition the government for grievances behind are to blame.

So don't fuel the fire.

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[SeventhSandwich]

I'm against national socialist punching on the basis that it undermines the institutions that protect us from national socialists. As soon as we try to give impunity to people committing violent crime, we set a precedent for tribal judges and tribal towns allowing the same thing. You will see incidents similar to what happened back during Jim Crow when entirely white juries would acquit kool kids klub lynch mobs.

That being said, Neo-national socialists are awful people and many of them deserve to get punched in the face. But you shouldn't do it or encourage people to do it, because ultimately it's destructive to our society.

This is an essay that makes an argument very similar to my own thinking. It's long but extremely relevant in the modern political climate.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/02/be-nice-at-least-until-you-can-coordinate-meanness/

Or here's the part that I find most important in this discussion:

The second reason that coordinated meanness is better than uncoordinated meanness is that it is less common. Uncoordinated meanness happens whenever one person wants to be mean; coordinated meanness happens when everyone (or 51% of the population, or an entire church worth of Puritans, or whatever) wants to be mean. If we accept theories like the wisdom of crowds or the marketplace of ideas – and we better, if we’re small-d democrats, small-r republicans, small-l liberals, or basically any word beginning with a lowercase letter at all – then a big group of people all debating with each other will be harder to rile up than a single lunatic.

As a Jew, if I heard that skinheads were beating up Jews in dark alleys, I would be pretty freaked out; for all I know I could be the next victim. But if I heard that skinheads were circulating a petition to get Congress to expel all the Jews, I wouldn’t be freaked out at all. I would expect almost nobody to sign the petition

(and in the sort of world where most people were signing the petition, I hope I would have moved to Israel long before anyone got any chance to expel me anyway)

Trying to coordinate meanness is not in itself a mean act – or at least, not as mean as actual meanness. If Westboro Baptist Church just published lots of pamphlets saying we should pass laws against homoloveuality, maybe it would have made some gay people feel less wanted, but it would have been a lot less intense than picketing funerals. If people who are against promiscuity want to write books about why we should all worry about promiscuity, it might get promiscuous people a little creeped out, but a lot less so than going up to promiscuous people and throwing water on them and shouting “YOU SAnnoying OrangeET!”

This is my answer to people who say that certain forms of speech make them feel unsafe, versus certain other people who demand the freedom to express their ideas. We should all feel unsafe around anybody who relishes uncoordinated meanness – beating people in dark alleys, picketing their funerals, shaming them, harassing them, private investigating them, getting them fired from their jobs. I have no tolerance for these people – I am sometimes forced to accept their existence because of the First Amendment, but I won’t do anything more.

[Tactical Nuke]

"time to start punching national socialists" said the people responsible for it getting to this point in the first place

[Khaz]

k I was just having some fun but this is just plain handicapped now

you're completely misconstruing what I'm saying

I'm not saying we should retaliate with violence. That's clearly not going to fix things. I'm saying someone who got punched in the face for instigating stuff deserves it.

You really telling me if someone got into your face shouting offensive stuff/potentially being an imminent danger, they dont "deserve" to be thwarted or in some cases punched? come on now. when people get in your face saying stuff like that 100% of the time they want to start a fight. that's why in videos you see the verbal offender immediately trying to throw hands at the person who pushed them back because they got up in their face. dont tell me this bullstuff about how they didn't deserve it.

Im fully aware that punching someone for verbal harassment isn't okay under the law, doesnt mean they "dont deserve it" when it does happen.

[SeventhSandwich]

"time to start punching national socialists" said the people responsible for it getting to this point in the first place

Ah yes. The couple dozen publicized incidents of national socialist punchers are clearly responsible for the resurgence of the American white supremacist movement. I know when I see a national socialist get punched, my gut instinct is to go get some swastika tattoos and confederate flags for my lawn.

[TristanLuigi]

Because the moment that violence as a solution is a mass-accepted political process, we lose our democratic process. And in this scenario, I don't care how happy you'd be about who was punched, because wherever democracy isn't, whatever government is in place will not care about your opinion, only whether or not you are acting in line with what they want. Both you and I would be without a vote and only those who sought to leave the democratic process and the 1^st Amendment right to petition the government for grievances behind are to blame.

So don't fuel the fire.

I'm against national socialist punching on the basis that it undermines the institutions that protect us from national socialists. As soon as we try to give impunity to people committing violent crime, we set a precedent for tribal judges and tribal towns allowing the same thing. You will see incidents similar to what happened back during Jim Crow when entirely white juries would acquit kool kids klub lynch mobs.

That being said, Neo-national socialists are awful people and many of them deserve to get punched in the face. But you shouldn't do it or encourage people to do it, because ultimately it's destructive to our society.

This is an essay that makes an argument very similar to my own thinking. It's long but extremely relevant in the modern political climate.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/05/02/be-nice-at-least-until-you-can-coordinate-meanness/

Or here's the part that I find most important in this discussion:

I don't think many people are arguing that national socialist-punchers should be immune under the law, and it's very obviously a slippery slope. If we don't prosecute violence against one set of beliefs, that sets a dangerous precedent. I think the idea is just that they deserve it, even if it's (rightly) illegal. I don't advocate punching national socialists, and I don't think people who do punch national socialists should be immune from legal consequences.

That said, I'm not really going to give a stuff if someone does.

[Nonnel]

if someone punches a neo-national socialist then they should rightfully be charged for assault, but i'm not sympathizing with the neo-national socialist

[Khaz]

"hey that guy's a white supremacist but you punched him so youre a horrible person"

[TristanLuigi]

"hey that guy's a white supremacist but you punched him so youre a horrible person"

doesn't make them a horrible person, but they broke the law, and have to face the consequences that entails

[Khaz]

doesn't make them a horrible person, but they broke the law, and have to face the consequences that entails

which is exactly what ive been saying

[SeventhSandwich]

I think the idea is just that they deserve it, even if it's (rightly) illegal.

I don't see that as problematic as long as it doesn't translate into policy. There are people I know who have committed far lesser evils than national socialistsm, who I still think would rightly deserve a swift punch to the face. This doesn't mean that I will punch them or encourage others to do so. It's just that if they happened to get punched, either by a person or some sort of cartoonish ACNE spring-loaded boxing glove gadget, I would probably laugh a little.

Enjoying the misery of terrible people is basically human nature. If you disagree, you're either lying or far more virtuous than the average person. The difference here is that what people enjoy on a visceral level can be extremely bad for society if acted upon. This is the reason why American courts tend to work better than a lynch-mob of Ethiopian villagers burning alleged potato thieves to death.

So, I find it hilarious when national socialists get punched, but I'm against it as well. Is that a contradictory position? I don't think so, but you decide!

[The Titanium]

how long until this thread devolves into mass sympathizing with the three idiots who thought it would be a good idea to shoot at protestors

[Tactical Nuke]

Ah yes. The couple dozen publicized incidents of national socialist punchers are clearly responsible for the resurgence of the American white supremacist movement. I know when I see a national socialist get punched, my gut instinct is to go get some swastika tattoos and confederate flags for my lawn.

how many people would even know who Richard Spencer is if he wasn't assaulted in the street by an Antifa thug? I only find out about him after it happened because everyone on the left had a ball cheering it on

it gives them reason to suspect that they're "oppressed" and that means they get to resort to the same handicapped tactics as the left and feel justified

I mean for forget's sake, the guy was talking about Pepe and some rando slams into him and calls him national socialist scum, what image do you think that's going to leave on memesters?

[TristanLuigi]

how long until this thread devolves into mass sympathizing with the three idiots who thought it would be a good idea to shoot at protestors

honestly i assumed beachbum had done that already
i have him blocked so i don't actually see his posts

[Red Spy]

"hey that guy's a white supremacist but you punched him so youre a horrible person"

the supremacist probably doesn't assault people