Author Topic: Linux is absolute trash, and the community is made up of entitled liars.  (Read 3011 times)

i have deeply invested myself into windows, macos and several linux distributions and i like them all for what they are. elitists that constantly have to flex about how their operating system is "superior" to what everyone else uses can be damned

also, regarding drivers: amd and intel drivers are fine on linux. in my experience nvidia drivers are where you get assforgeted because nvidia is a dumb and their drivers are proprietary - you have to either use the nouveau drivers which have crappy performance and are missing features or their proprietary drivers which have a tendency to break with things like system upgrades, don't support wayland, have lagging and stuttering on the various desktop environments ive tried, etc
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 06:52:41 PM by Mr Queeba »

I've had my Linux break a lot back when I used Fedora, Ubuntu and Arch.
Mint on the other hand is pretty stable and I would suggest it to all beginners
BTW did you dual boot Xubuntu with Windows? if so that could be the problem too, I've had windows forget my linux partitions over and over.

No, I had a seperate computer set aside. And Xubuntu was installed AFTER the OS was installed. And this particular example is in Pop!_OS.

Prior to Pop!_OS I was using Manjaro, but I also had issues with Manjaro. Similar Issues, so creating a whole section in the thread above would have been redundant.

No, I had a seperate computer set aside. And Xubuntu was installed AFTER the OS was installed. And this particular example is in Pop!_OS.

Prior to Pop!_OS I was using Manjaro, but I also had issues with Manjaro. Similar Issues, so creating a whole section in the thread above would have been redundant.
What exactly kind of hardware is the machine you were trying?


What exactly kind of hardware is the machine you were trying?
Forgive me on the specs being a bit vague, it's been a while

128gb SSD
r7 260x Radeon GPU
AMD Athlon CPU of some sort
16 GB DDr3 Ram

it's always amused me that installing headless ubuntu has a large purple gui to walk through it
absurdly easy to install, but i wouldn't use it as a main computer

Forgive me on the specs being a bit vague, it's been a while

128gb SSD
r7 260x Radeon GPU
AMD Athlon CPU of some sort
16 GB DDr3 Ram
I've had issues with older Athlon systems (on both Linux and Windows). Typically the issues ends up being compatibility of newer software with older motherboards and chipsets.
Not to say it's impossible to make them work. The SSH gateway to my entire network is an old, low-power Athlon x2 system. I got it to run Debian, but it's still stubborn at the best of times (On top of that, it's running SELinux, but that's not something for most people to worry about).
I also had an FX-8350 system that, to this day, has been rock-solid. The quality of boards from those generations, in my experience, is just somewhat hit-or-miss.

Most likely it's just something going wrong with the boot process though. The files are most likely still there.
Does it reach the GRUB menu before it freezes, or does it freeze straight out of the BIOS? And did Manjaro act the same, or was the issue different?

it's always amused me that installing headless ubuntu has a large purple gui to walk through it
absurdly easy to install, but i wouldn't use it as a main computer
Fun thing about that GUI. It's entirely drawn in a terminal window. It's a pretty neat trick dating all the way back to the days of DOS.
But no, I wouldn't try to use a headless system for everyday use.
You can. The tools exist.
But I can't think of any good reason to try.

I've had issues with older Athlon systems (on both Linux and Windows). Typically the issues ends up being compatibility of newer software with older motherboards and chipsets.
Not to say it's impossible to make them work. The SSH gateway to my entire network is an old, low-power Athlon x2 system. I got it to run Debian, but it's still stubborn at the best of times (On top of that, it's running SELinux, but that's not something for most people to worry about).
I also had an FX-8350 system that, to this day, has been rock-solid. The quality of boards from those generations, in my experience, is just somewhat hit-or-miss.

Most likely it's just something going wrong with the boot process though. The files are most likely still there.
Does it reach the GRUB menu before it freezes, or does it freeze straight out of the BIOS? And did Manjaro act the same, or was the issue different?
Fun thing about that GUI. It's entirely drawn in a terminal window. It's a pretty neat trick dating all the way back to the days of DOS.
But no, I wouldn't try to use a headless system for everyday use.
You can. The tools exist.
But I can't think of any good reason to try.

Both would reach the black screen with cursor, they never reached a gui after the issues started occurring.

Both would reach the black screen with cursor, they never reached a gui after the issues started occurring.
I'm assuming that by it never reaching a GUI, you mean that it POSTs, passes GRUB, but then never (visibly) starts X/Wayland.
I'm also assuming, in your original post, that when you said a "hit a specific set of keys", you mean the Ctrl+Alt+F2,F3,etc. to switch the virtual terminal window.
It's either that, or it landed you in GRUB, but GRUB was unable to locate the file necessary to continue the boot process, and the terminal you ended up at was the GRUB terminal.

If it's the former you should be able to log in and view your logs to see what's actually happening.
You can also hit escape after GRUB to watch the system's boot progress.
If it's the latter, well... that's a different process as your system hasn't actually booted...
There are things you can do about it though.

You were following a guide online correct?
If the guide failed, it's possible it was making the wrong assumptions of what was wrong.
It could very well be something simple, just obfuscated by the fact that you can't reach the desktop. That tends to make things difficult.

OP unironically put more time into making this thread and formatting it instead of figuring out how to install linux

I know this topic is a whole month old, but I figured there would be no harm in replying this late. There is a lot of ignorance in the OP's post so I want to pitch in with some information.

Linux based desktop operating systems are unfortunately energy inefficient, difficult to use, a pain to maintain and incompatible with a lot of software. But Linux OSes are important for the reason that they are free -- not as in free beer, but as in freedom. It means the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. It is a matter of "liberty", not price.

If you think about it, Windows barely has those freedoms. You can only run Windows if you have a license. You are not allowed to copy and distribute Windows under digital piracy law. You cannot study Windows' source code because it's closed, and as such, Windows, (like all proprietary software,) cannot be modified and improved by users. This establishes a digital role reversal where the software controls the user.

When you use Windows (and other proprietary software), you enable Microsoft (and co.) to spy on you, abuse you, and do things that you don't want it to, and you can't stop it. Take for example the infamous Windows updates, or the insane amounts of telemetry/spying in Windows 10. Because our computers control much of our personal information, proprietary software represent great danger to a free society.

The importance of Linux is more of an ethical and political one. It is specially important for governments and universities that cannot stand to be spied on by the US government, which Windows enables. Anyone who uses desktop Linux for convenience and user-friendliness is not going to find it. If you don't care about these things, then go ahead, use Windows or Mac.

You are also encouraged to help improve Linux and its software components. It is entirely made by community members like you.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 08:37:26 AM by AndroFox »

The importance of Linux is more of an ethical and political one. It is specially important for governments and universities that cannot stand to be spied on by the US government, which Windows enables. Anyone who uses desktop Linux for convenience and user-friendliness is not going to find it. If you don't care about these things, then go ahead, use Windows or Mac.
The title may have been quite eye grabbing, but my point was always that's the community makes Linux stuff. So many are arrogant and deceitful, spreading misinformation to defeat their enemy. This is the quickest path to self destruction.

Microsoft is Evil, yes.
Lying to decieve people is more evil. You may not be part of the loud obnoxious "Linux Master Race" types, but there are plenty who try to convince everyone that Linux is better at everything.

They're either liars or delusional.

The title may have been quite eye grabbing, but my point was always that's the community makes Linux stuff. So many are arrogant and deceitful, spreading misinformation to defeat their enemy. This is the quickest path to self destruction.

Microsoft is Evil, yes.
Lying to decieve people is more evil. You may not be part of the loud obnoxious "Linux Master Race" types, but there are plenty who try to convince everyone that Linux is better at everything.

They're either liars or delusional.

I am certain that many members of the Linux community do not fall into those categories you described. Yes, I understand a few bad apples spoil the bunch, and I'm sorry it has been this way for you. There are a lot of things pro-Linux people don't tell about you, and one of those things is that it takes a lot of work to get a system working the way you want.

If you're ever willing to give Linux another try, without any specific goal in mind, I would recommend using the main release of Ubuntu -- namely the LTS version. I don't have any experience with Pop!_OS, but I know for sure that Ubuntu _often_ works out-of-the-box. It is the distro that takes the least amount of work to set up (but that doesn't mean that you aren't going to run into issues.)

Some people (although uncommonly) experience problems with their video cards (specially hybrids) and with Wi-Fi. For the least setup work, I recommend using a desktop with a dedicated graphics card and connected to a network via Ethernet.  If you are using a laptop, Linux will not be energy-efficient until you set up TLP and configure it properly.

The art of searching the internet for answers is also a must if you want to use Linux. You are going to run into issues a lot during your first days, and you'll find yourself constantly jumping through hoops to get even the most basic things done (that you would have done in Windows without having to even think.)

You are also going to want to install the proprietary graphics drivers for your video card, (unless you prefer the open source version, which is not as good), and make sure that it is not overheating. You may need to adjust the fans automatically by using a Bash script. If you want a script for automatically adjusting the fan speeds of a Nvidia card as temperatures chance, I have a script that I use which runs in the background.

You are also going to have to get comfortable with using the command line to diagnose and fix problems. It is not like fixing a problem in Windows where you can use a fix-it software to do the work for you. But once you get used to the command line, it feels like home. The Linux command line is intended to be fully functional and usable as a workstation, with split windows, text based browsers, music players and whatnot. The learning curve however is not so nice because of how much the average user has grown used to graphical interfaces and a command-line interface can seem intimidating.

If you are not willing to deal with those things, I recommend you steer clear from Linux. If you are adamant about the philosophy of software libertation, use Linux. Or if you are just wanting to learn/have fun, use Linux in a virtual machine or dual boot. Yes, some people find using Linux fun, like I do.

On a side note, it is true that Linux is great for programmers. Almost all Linux distros have common build tools like GCC (a C compiler) and all useful libraries for it that are so easy and convenient to install (compared to Windows). Installing a C/C++ library on Ubuntu is simply a matter of typing in a command, whereas in Windows you have to jump through many hoops to do so. Linux also has vim, which by some is considered to be the best text editor that has ever existed. Linux also has the best C debugger (gdb) and a suite of tools for memory brown townysis (valgrind).

There is also a major difference between Linux for servers and Linux for desktop. Linux for servers tend to be much, much easier to maintain than Linux for desktop, because of the complex structure of desktop environments. Desktop Linux has a long way to go still and I don't see it taking over the market any time soon. Unfortunately, Linux does not play well with some hardware because its hardware compatibility is made entirely by volunteers, and a lot of the hardware specifications are proprietary and require copious amount of revers engineering.

I think it is important that we contribute to Linux so that one day it can become a viable option to the average user. Dell sells some low-end laptops that run Ubuntu, with all the hardware already configured. I believe that is the smoothest Linux experience you can have. I don't have any experience with those however, so if you are interested, you might want to look into it more.

On a side note, it is true that Linux is great for programmers. Almost all Linux distros have common build tools like GCC (a C compiler) and all useful libraries for it that are so easy and convenient to install (compared to Windows). Installing a C/C++ library on Ubuntu is simply a matter of typing in a command, whereas in Windows you have to jump through many hoops to do so. Linux also has vim, which by some is considered to be the best text editor that has ever existed. Linux also has the best C debugger (gdb) and a suite of tools for memory brown townysis (valgrind).

I'd like to quickly point out that a distinction shout be made between 'gcc' (the command), and "GCC" (the toolchain).

Yes 'gcc', when referring to the command, refers to the 'GNU C Compiler' and can be called directly from the terminal to compile C code. However "GCC" (written  as all caps) typically refers to the "GNU Compiler Collection", which can include (depending on the package implementation), not only 'gcc', but also 'g++' (the C++ compiler), 'gfortran' (a Fortran Compiler), 'gdb' (the aforementioned debugger), and a number of other libraries and programming front ends, tools, and utilities.

Just clarification an case anyone gets confused, because it is a bit confusing.

the linux community probably sucks but its a great kernel, probably one of the most important software projects of all time

it sounds like you bricked your computer (ive done that before too) and now youre mad at the linux community about it for some reason
« Last Edit: November 22, 2019, 07:21:13 PM by ultimamax »