Author Topic: FINAL VOTES: President-Elect Biden WINS Georgia, giving him 306 electoral votes (Read 4068 times)

Conan · November 16, 2020, 02:17:26 AM

Quote from: Raoul Silva on November 16, 2020, 01:06:56 AM

true, but it doesn't change the fact that they'll be the ones suffering when January 20th comes (even though leftists are pushing for policies that would help everyone, including most conservatives)

they arent clearly conservative, they trolled mm equally as hard on mm�s topic. they troll people who they think are idiots or take their bait. ur wasting ur time on them lol

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PhantOS · November 16, 2020, 05:47:04 AM

Quote from: Master Matthew� on November 15, 2020, 11:10:39 PM

Biden stole this election. The evidence of fraud keeps piling up and everyone keeps shoving forks in their eyes.
This is unbelievable levels of asinine.

It's at the point if I post a link, and it disagrees with X perspective it gets automatically deemd "FAKE NEWS".

No context, no rational. Just [SiteName] Alt Right.

as president of the united states master matthew, what would you do to solve the fraud present in our government?

Drydess · November 16, 2020, 09:35:07 AM

Quote from: Crook on November 16, 2020, 01:09:58 AM

The only person suffering is your mother

True

Master Matthew� · November 16, 2020, 10:19:34 AM

Quote from: Raoul Silva on November 15, 2020, 11:23:59 PM

There is no evidence of any form of significant voter fraud, let alone mass voter fraud, Matthew. There is nothing. Annoying Orange's lawsuits are literally getting thrown out left and right because he has no basis of evidence. If he has actual evidence then go ahead and prove it in court - except he doesn't have anything. He's an authoritarian and a fascist. There is only ignorance in the thought that Democrats would commit mass voter fraud to get Biden elected by closer margins in key swing states (even though they're greater than Annoying Orange's vastly smaller margins in 2016 - which would be voter fraud under your definition) and yet still do poorly in the senate races and actually lose numerous house seats, in addition to changing not one state legislature. You lost. You need to get over it and wake up. There are countless other studies and examples from security officials, even vastly Republican ones, saying that there was no election fraud. Arizona and Georgia literally have fully Republican state governments. Both went to Biden lmao. There was no fraud.

The headline you posted is pure propaganda.

You expect anyone to believe an election where the laws and rules were changed last second, with a new system where PA, GA and many other states decided to forego signature verification, is secure?

Bullstuff. The security official saying everything is secure is like asking the chef if he thinks his food is good. Of course he will say yes.

The media only desperately wants this to be "secure" so biden can "win".

Notice how the media held off on calling states while they were for Annoying Orange, but the instant they were blue, boom biden. Even though the count wasnt over.

The media desperately wants Annoying Orange out. Hilarious, because without Annoying Orange they are toast, but economic Self Delete seems to be the left's speciality.

And exactly on cue. Ive provider insane amounts of evidence throughout the Annoying Orange thread. Some as blatant as a man tearing up a vote and another where they found torn up Annoying Orange votes, yet you're still over here "tHeReS nO eViDeNcE oF fRaUd."

Master Matthew� · November 16, 2020, 10:42:23 AM

Quote from: PhantOS on November 16, 2020, 05:47:04 AM

as president of the united states master matthew, what would you do to solve the fraud present in our government?

Create a board of Electronic Electoral Standards.
Push for a Paper Ballot Altenative law to be passed federally.

Paper ballots should always be an option. But that doesn't mean they lose their security. Paper ballots would be printed with security standards set by the EESB. Preferably an encrypted code that verifies the ballot is real but wont ID the person, since the ballot id predates anyone recieving and using it. It wouldn't be a visible number, it would be more like a QR Code. But larger, too large to decrypt in a few months.

Electronic Voting Booths, if selected should be:
Open Source
Transparent, literally clear plastic
Display has local source code hash on screen.
Display has local ballot hash on screen.
If either of these do not match the ones that would be required to be displayed within sight of all of these machines. Report the irregularity before voting.
If neither of these do not match the online source code hash and the online ballot hash. Report it to the EESB official at your area immediately. This should become standard with other poll watchers.
No internet access
Set to read only until a certified eesb brings the proper
Decryption key to download the votes, and void the votes on the machines. (Not deletes, but a void flag is set. Avoid double votes)
Decryption keys and any data like that needs to be changed before every election.
Testing, testing testing.
Do not use this in a general election until it has been tested and verified by the EESB and results presented to the public. Then its up to congress and the other parts of government to agree to it as usual.

As for mail in votes, the return to normalcy of absentee standards should be required. Except absantee ballots will have an encrypted qrcode like id to show its real.

Mail in ballots as they are stand insanely insecure without a decent chain of custody. Expand absantee standards to age and underlying health conditions if it isnt already, but these need to be proven just like any other absantee claim.

The covid era mail in ballots system needs to be completely repealed. These allowed anyone, anywhere to request a ballot. And sometimes not even in their own name. Disgustingly insecure.

But an EESB with federal election standards needs to be established. With basic rules on how these systems are handled. This does not mean they have a direct hand in what systems are chosen nationwide, but what standards systems have to expect to meet in order to be chosen anywhere in the US. This means different boothes snd different companies can fight for it as usual. All foreign ties must be disclosed as per usual. But most of that is common sense and while it would be defined ina legal environment, I'll abstain from going through the motions here.

Unova2 · November 16, 2020, 10:47:13 AM

how would electronic voting booths be open source master matthew. your whole point about avoiding voting fraud implies that they can't reverse engineer it in a reasonable time, and it has to start using proprietary code very soon after input for that to be possible.
also, what would a literally transparent machine be for? would you be able to ID specific parts from a specific manufacturer as being fraudulent? through the transparent plastic? i don't get it.

Master Matthew� · November 16, 2020, 10:52:45 AM

Quote from: Unova2 on November 16, 2020, 10:47:13 AM

how would electronic voting booths be open source master matthew. your whole point about avoiding voting fraud implies that they can't reverse engineer it in a reasonable time, and it has to start using proprietary code very soon after input for that to be possible.
also, what would a literally transparent machine be for? would you be able to ID specific parts from a specific manufacturer as being fraudulent? through the transparent plastic? i don't get it.

It s not about reverse engineering, its about security. You may think those two are inseparable. But linux is a great example as why it is not. The source code means you can duplicate and attempt to break it, yes. But you still have to break it in a similar environment to the one its displayed in publicly.

And if they do, the system is actually doing what its supposed to.
This is intentional. Running mock elections with these systems being open source. (Along with rewards for breaking them and telling us how they did it.) Will help advance the security.

It sounds counter productive from a surface level, but it pays off in the instant it is broken in a sandbox environment.

The security isnt from the mystery of the code. The security is from bashing the weaknesses in during mock elections. These mock elections can be run multiple times. And it would likely be years before they're implemented in real elections, yes. But slow and steady wins this race.

Transparent plastic allows you to verify there was no tampering or modification of the boards physically. Admittedly most people wouldn't be able to notice anything. But the clear plastic is more of a security convenience factor for the EESB representice to know where to look before resorting to disassembling a machine. Which should be a last resort. The EESB representive could identify fraudulent parts or tampering without having to shutdown an entire booth to figure it out. However, of a part is found to be fraudulent. The booth should be removed as evidence.

This issue does bring to light something interesting. This would void a lot of votes. Boothes should have numerical IDs that the voter would remember voting at. If their booth number is compromised. The registrar should be able to verify they used that booth. Not when they voted. This specific piece of info should be obfuscated for voter privacy. But a signature should still be required at the check in. With ID.

Ipquarx · November 16, 2020, 11:06:29 AM

Electronic voting has been, is currently, and will always be a terrible idea. For security reasons I firmly believe it shouldn't exist, period. However, despite that, there is no evidence to date that electronic voting machines in the US have been tampered with.

More on that topic from Tom Scott

Gytyyhgfffff · November 16, 2020, 11:23:59 AM

open source voting might provide security for the actual voting software, but that isn't the only security hole that would exist in such a system. what is the voting software running on? its running on an operating system, which is a massive suite of software that has to be 100% secure for the voting software to work. how do we store votes? we store it on a database, which is a massive suite of software that has to be 100% secure for the voting software to work. at every single point where you use a library or other software for your open source voting, you have to ensure that the library or other software is 100% secure. we can even throw this problem onto the hardware itself. the hardware also has to be 100% secure, which exploits like meltdown and spectre have proven that even hardware isn't secure. ensuring all this security is not possible at the moment. you might say that the OS and the database are bloated and we could make a cut-down version for open source voting needs, but this would be a massive undertaking. that sort of software is complicated for a reason -- the OS is complicated so that it is massively portable (what doesn't linux run on?), and the database is complicated just to perform normal tasks without taking hours (without insane levels of optimization, doing basic operations like counting votes and joining votes to voter registration records could take literal days instead of seconds). building things from scratch also introduces all sorts of new security flaws. it would be very easy to miss out on some security standard that every other suite of software has when you're creating stuff from scratch.

imo electronic voting machines shouldn't be anything more than just a fancy typewriter. press a button and it fills out a paper ballot for you, and displays it to the voter before it goes into the collection bin.

it should be noted that automatic vote collection software is a little different because vote counting areas operate under different security protocols. one big one is that they're restricted to the public. some rando can't figure out a hardware flaw and flip an election on the open source voting machines. if they tried doing that in a vote counting area, it would be under strict recording and security and it is probably not possible to do at all. additionally, if a flaw is found with the software, you have a paper backup if you're doing vote collection properly. you can always go back to hand counting.

the reason why open source voting is so insecure is because there are so many security flaws since voting has to be accessible to everyone, necessitating polling locations to be in every precinct. that means there has to be a team of personnel per polling location setting up each electronic voting machine. it would be way easier to compromise one of these teams instead of trying to compromise the vote counting area.

Master Matthew� · November 16, 2020, 11:30:36 AM

Quote from: Gytyyhgfffff on November 16, 2020, 11:23:59 AM

open source voting might provide security for the actual voting software, but that isn't the only security hole that would exist in such a system. what is the voting software running on? its running on an operating system, which is a massive suite of software that has to be 100% secure for the voting software to work. how do we store votes? we store it on a database, which is a massive suite of software that has to be 100% secure for the voting software to work. at every single point where you use a library or other software for your open source voting, you have to ensure that the library or other software is 100% secure. we can even throw this problem onto the hardware itself. the hardware also has to be 100% secure, which exploits like meltdown and spectre have proven that even hardware isn't secure. this is not possible at the moment. you might say that the OS and the database are bloated and we could make a cut-down version for open source voting needs, but this would be a massive undertaking. that sort of software is complicated for a reason -- the OS is complicated so that it is massively portable (what doesn't linux run on?), and the database is complicated just to perform normal tasks without taking hours (without insane levels of optimization, doing basic operations like counting votes and joining votes to voter registration records could take literal days instead of seconds).

imo electronic voting machines shouldn't be anything more than just a fancy typewriter. press a button and it fills out a paper ballot for you, and displays it to the voter before it goes into the collection bin.

it should be noted that automatic vote collection software is a little different because vote counting areas operate under different security protocols. one big one is that they're restricted to the public. some rando can't figure out a hardware flaw and flip an election on the open source voting machines. if they tried doing that in a vote counting area, it would be under strict recording and security and it is probably not possible to do at all. additionally, if a flaw is found with the software, you have a paper backup if you're doing vote collection properly. you can always go back to hand counting.

the reason why open source voting is so insecure is because there are so many security flaws since voting has to be accessible to everyone, necessitating polling locations to be in every precinct. that means there has to be a team of personnel per polling location setting up each electronic voting machine. it would be way easier to compromise one of these teams instead of trying to compromise the vote counting area.

Chances are the EESB would stand where you stand. But the only way most people will come to the conclusion electronic voting is broken is to try every single option. And seeing them be broken every time means it would likely never end.

Quote from: Ipquarx on November 16, 2020, 11:06:29 AM

Electronic voting has been, is currently, and will always be a terrible idea. For security reasons I firmly believe it shouldn't exist, period. However, despite that, there is no evidence to date that electronic voting machines in the US have been tampered with.

More on that topic from Tom Scott

As of that video there was no evidence. So much has changed in terms of info now.

PhantOS · November 16, 2020, 11:42:19 AM

Quote from: Master Matthew� on November 16, 2020, 10:42:23 AM

Create a board of Electronic Electoral Standards.
Push for a Paper Ballot Altenative law to be passed federally.

Paper ballots should always be an option. But that doesn't mean they lose their security. Paper ballots would be printed with security standards set by the EESB. Preferably an encrypted code that verifies the ballot is real but wont ID the person, since the ballot id predates anyone recieving and using it. It wouldn't be a visible number, it would be more like a QR Code. But larger, too large to decrypt in a few months.

Electronic Voting Booths, if selected should be:
Open Source
Transparent, literally clear plastic
Display has local source code hash on screen.
Display has local ballot hash on screen.
If either of these do not match the ones that would be required to be displayed within sight of all of these machines. Report the irregularity before voting.
If neither of these do not match the online source code hash and the online ballot hash. Report it to the EESB official at your area immediately. This should become standard with other poll watchers.
No internet access
Set to read only until a certified eesb brings the proper
Decryption key to download the votes, and void the votes on the machines. (Not deletes, but a void flag is set. Avoid double votes)
Decryption keys and any data like that needs to be changed before every election.
Testing, testing testing.
Do not use this in a general election until it has been tested and verified by the EESB and results presented to the public. Then its up to congress and the other parts of government to agree to it as usual.

As for mail in votes, the return to normalcy of absentee standards should be required. Except absantee ballots will have an encrypted qrcode like id to show its real.

Mail in ballots as they are stand insanely insecure without a decent chain of custody. Expand absantee standards to age and underlying health conditions if it isnt already, but these need to be proven just like any other absantee claim.

The covid era mail in ballots system needs to be completely repealed. These allowed anyone, anywhere to request a ballot. And sometimes not even in their own name. Disgustingly insecure.

But an EESB with federal election standards needs to be established. With basic rules on how these systems are handled. This does not mean they have a direct hand in what systems are chosen nationwide, but what standards systems have to expect to meet in order to be chosen anywhere in the US. This means different boothes snd different companies can fight for it as usual. All foreign ties must be disclosed as per usual. But most of that is common sense and while it would be defined ina legal environment, I'll abstain from going through the motions here.

and how would this decision benefit you

Master Matthew� · November 16, 2020, 11:50:33 AM

Quote from: PhantOS on November 16, 2020, 11:42:19 AM

and how would this decision benefit you

Not having an entire country freaking out and rejecting eachother's results as invalid would be a good first benefit.

Ipquarx · November 16, 2020, 11:53:32 AM

Quote from: Master Matthew� on November 16, 2020, 11:30:36 AM

As of that video there was no evidence. So much has changed in terms of info now.

So you watched the video? Do you agree with his conclusions?

TlTO · November 16, 2020, 03:17:54 PM

Quote from: Raoul Silva on November 16, 2020, 01:06:56 AM

true, but it doesn't change the fact that they'll be the ones suffering when January 20th comes

???

Khaz · November 16, 2020, 03:24:21 PM

Quote from: Master Matthew� on November 16, 2020, 11:50:33 AM

Not having an entire country freaking out and rejecting eachother's results as invalid would be a good first benefit.

lol