Author Topic: What makes a good classic trench TDM map?  (Read 897 times)

(this used to be asking for saves to old TDMs but i dont think anyone has them so instead of making a new thread im just reusing this one)

What are your thoughts on what makes a good classic trench tdm map? I remember playing on some way back in like, 2010, but I hardly remember anything about them other than they had lava at the bottom of the map. Any reference pics or save files would help as well
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 12:09:01 PM by Blockomaniac »

-No ingame shop, those things suck out all the fun imo since you only do things to get guns that are overpriced.
-An actual reason to build things like defences and trenches. Most trench warfare maps just devolve into tunnel wars.
-A battlefield that isn't just flat and brown. Adding hills and some dynamicity to the terrain would be a nice change.
-Things you need to fight over being properly put on the map, idk why but everyone always puts points in the corner, of the map.
-A Goal you need to reach to complete the game, almost no trench warfare tdm has this

-No ingame shop, those things suck out all the fun imo since you only do things to get guns that are overpriced.
yeah, i understand why people make them (player retention) but i dislike them because i hate spawning with some generic weak pistol and having to kill people with shotguns/snipers/rifles/etc

-An actual reason to build things like defences and trenches. Most trench warfare maps just devolve into tunnel wars.
What kind of things do you think would encourage this? Like, how should I build the map? Are there any trench maps that did this well? One idea I had was to make it so flags are completely exposed with no wall, bases, etc to cover them. Therefor, players would feel compelled to make their own barriers around them (i think greek2me's trench ctf did this?)

-Things you need to fight over being properly put on the map, idk why but everyone always puts points in the corner, of the map.
Yeah, I was thinking about adding a cap point in the center of the map that gives points when caught, and the way for a team to win would be to reach a certain number of points (with killing other players giving a small amount of points, capturing points giving a medium amount of points, and a flag-capture giving a huge amount of points)

-A Goal you need to reach to complete the game, almost no trench warfare tdm has this
Would capturing the enemy flag count for this, or is that a given? That's all ive ever seen trench CTFs do so I dont currently have any other ideas lol

-A battlefield that isn't just flat and brown. Adding hills and some dynamicity to the terrain would be a nice change.
I want to do this, it might make the map look less "classic" but oh well. i dislike seeing the same shade of brown literally everywhere lol. All the classic-styled trench TDMs i remember playing were just flat and brown with some lava moats between team spawns.


Also, the weapons I currently have for the server are:

-classic sniper, shotgun, and sniper
- frag grenade
- c4
- chainsaw (the green one that cuts off body parts temporarily, though its only cosmetic)
- the old pyro gun (not sure if this counts as a "classic", but it's a pretty old add-on and feels nostalgic to me so I'm keeping it for now)
- the red and white pill that heals you
- deflector (this might prove to be overpowered but not sure)
- butterfly knife
- old crowbar add-on (theres probably a million crowbar add-ons so i'll get a pic)
- duo revolvers


WIP pics of blue spawn:






What kind of things do you think would encourage this? Like, how should I build the map? Are there any trench maps that did this well? One idea I had was to make it so flags are completely exposed with no wall, bases, etc to cover them. Therefor, players would feel compelled to make their own barriers around them (i think greek2me's trench ctf did this?)
I think a more experimental map design should work. At one point I was thinking about making a trench TDM with things like cliffs or ravines that would give one team a strategic advantage if they hold that area or point. For an example, holding a cliff would give one team the advantage of easily sniping off enemy team members. While the same can be done by digging out dirt and then building a tower or something like that, you are pretty vulnerable if you aren't careful with how you build and also you waste time and "manpower" since there is going to be one guy less doing stuff, where as capturing the cliff would just give you a advantage if you hold onto it.

What kind of things do you think would encourage this? Like, how should I build the map? Are there any trench maps that did this well? One idea I had was to make it so flags are completely exposed with no wall, bases, etc to cover them. Therefor, players would feel compelled to make their own barriers around them (i think greek2me's trench ctf did this?)
Would capturing the enemy flag count for this, or is that a given? That's all ive ever seen trench CTFs do so I dont currently have any other ideas lol
CTF matches have a bad habit of never ending or never going anywhere due to players just constantly dying in never ending assaults. I know that this is a stupid argument and the entire point of a trench TDM is to emulate ww1 style battles, but after a while it just becomes a annoyingly tedious cycle of spawn, attack and die. I would like to see a point capture gamemode where there are multiple points placed over the map in distant and different areas, making it so that a team can't just hold all four points at once because the points were lazily placed. I would use the Company of Heroes or Dawn of war point system, where some points aside from giving you points to win the match, also give you some sort of extra bonuses or resources you can use to take the enemy's place. Generally you should have a reason as to why players want to be around a area of the map.

I want to do this, it might make the map look less "classic" but oh well. i dislike seeing the same shade of brown literally everywhere lol. All the classic-styled trench TDMs i remember playing were just flat and brown with some lava moats between team spawns.
The less "classic" maps aren't really that good. Flat brown land isn't that interesting not to mention that its boring to fight or be on. Adding hills and other natural obsticles obstructs the sight of players and forces them out of the base to get kills and do stuff. Players also have to put natural obsticles into consideration when planning a attack. Maybe the dried out riverbed that serves as a trench system can help the attackers lower their casualties significantly, Maybe a team has to take into consideration that going over a hill will make them easier targets for the opposing team so they have to somehow circumvent that. At this point im just better off making a normal TDM map, but I want to think when im using the trench tools, not just making some basic ass tunnels and foxholes. You should also add some things underground, like caves or empty spaces.

For weapons Idk much, maybe they will fit in.

Also I wonder if horses would be a viable thing in trench TDMs, most vehicles are extremley janky on trench maps and I belive that horses would be a lot less janky and mobile than a tank or something.


one thing you can do to make it *trench* tdm is make the digging floor very shallow and make it more like a traditional terrain build tdm map. that way you dig trenches and maybe shallow tunnels but not do like 30 min of digging at the bottom of the dirt area to make a tunnel from your base to the enemy’s capture point

then the focus is more about combat and digging quick trenches for cover rather than constructing elaborate forts. then again, that may be the appeal of trench tdm for you so it may not work if thats the case.

I ended up going with Cromartini's idea and made this:



I'm hoping that this map design will work well with the CTF aspect. The idea is for it to make players have to build a ton of bridges and cover, but my worry is that there be much reason to make tunnels

The way to win is either getting 4 flag captures, or getting to 100 points. Killing an enemy is 1 point, capturing a point is 15, and returning a flag is 20 (but returning a flag 4 times is an auto-win). I want to edit the capture points to make it so capturing them actually gives you some kind of advantage instead of just points, but I'm not sure what. Maybe a special item? A turret? Maybe horses llike Cromartini said. That could make flag capturing easier, thus making it a valuable advantage.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 01:47:18 PM by Blockomaniac »

Add fort structures or something. If you have long ranged weapons in this game they'll make it boring to play imo w/o any

Maybe underground are some large caves/mining bases that have some sort of reward for digging and fortifying underground like a good weapon or map bonus

Vehicles or artillery cannons would be fun too
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 12:06:32 AM by Zotron »

immensely based weapon choice

Add fort structures or something. If you have long ranged weapons in this game they'll make it boring to play imo w/o any
I thought about this, but decided not do since that's a large part of a trench tdm, building your own fortifications and such. I could add basic dirt walls or something though

Maybe underground are some large caves/mining bases that have some sort of reward for digging and fortifying underground like a good weapon or map bonus
Vehicles or artillery cannons would be fun too
I added small caves with special weapons in the islands with capture points on them, so there's that. I also added horses that a team can claim by capturing a nearby capture point.

immensely based weapon choice
I hosted on friday with classic weapons (shotgun, sniper, and assault rifle) but some people didn't like them much, and two recommended Rally's weapon pack. I'm using that now, but I can go back to the classic weapons whenever.

tdm maps have lanes, and each lane can & should be tailored to a specific set of playstyles. shotgun lane can benefit from lots of cover and hallways but should be a long and windy walk or sniper lane could just be a much shorter straighter duck hunt esque corridor. if your lane doesn't lead to another lane or directly to the enemy base then you should consider removing it because it'll serve no gameplay advantage other than to consume players' combat time. i could explain using pictures the use of lanes in map design if it helps but it's vry important

your lanes should also communicate the gameplay style they're reinforcing if possible. eg: shoehorning a sniper rifle into a cave is in my opinion poor design. and be prepared to go into the weapon pack's files and do some balancing if you truly want to refine the experience.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:42:00 PM by PhantOS »

ngl rallypackheads are kind of ruining dms in general. rallypack has a specific usage which doesn't overtake others like sweps, adventure pack, etc. using it in every possible scenario (including ones where it doesn't make sense to use) is just kinda demeaning it

a good trench for me is one where you can cause damage to the environment through ways other than digging it. being able to place fortifications is fine, but after a good round with some good gameplay the surface of the map should be pockmarked, which makes emergent gameplay in the form of sudden cover/suddenly being out of cover.
there was a good tdm i saw being hosted a while ago which had a kind of thin surface layer of dirt and it was super fun. there was also a tank you could drive  after getting a certain amount of points and you had to get your team to prepare for it by building a path to the enemy base. the enemies could destroy your path using grenades and stuff so it was an effort to drive them back and build it at the same time. fun experience.

tdm maps have lanes, and each lane can & should be tailored to a specific set of playstyles. shotgun lane can benefit from lots of cover and hallways but should be a long and windy walk or sniper lane could just be a much shorter straighter duck hunt esque corridor. if your lane doesn't lead to another lane or directly to the enemy base then you should consider removing it because it'll serve no gameplay advantage other than to consume players' combat time. i could explain using pictures the use of lanes in map design if it helps but it's vry important

your lanes should also communicate the gameplay style they're reinforcing if possible. eg: shoehorning a sniper rifle into a cave is in my opinion poor design. and be prepared to go into the weapon pack's files and do some balancing if you truly want to refine the experience.
Is there a video or something explaining this map design mechanic in more detail? It sounds very interesting.