Author Topic: Why worship god, when...  (Read 25042 times)

Did you even read what I said? If you did you would see I was only negative to YOU. I was neutral to 5 posts, negative to yours, and positive to the last. And this is why I get upset. People like you are spreading the virus of ignorance; Digmaster is debating me logically. You blindly assume, rather than being open minded and being neutral to all theories. Challenge everything, not just Christianity.

No, forget the sun I got a loving sun burn, the sun is a douchebag.

Now what you NEED to worship is Krispie Kreme
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:00:29 PM by Exo Pheratype »

Now what you NEED to do is worship is Krispie Kreme

Epic grammar.

If the universe learned from trial and error wouldn't that mean it has some kind of intelligence behind it? Plus that is just philosophy, there is no proof to justify a trial-and-error scenario that caused life.
Multiverse theory: there are an infinite number of universes, each with different rules (i.e. speed of light, gravitational constant, planck constant, ...), each time something can't be determined with 100% certainty at a quantum level, the universe is split in 2: 1 universe where the event happened and one where it didn't happen (Schrodinger's cat). With all these variations, one or more of these universes have to be suitable for life, and with so many planets, one must contain all elements for life.

Worshiping the sun is illogical. Science doesn't disprove God, Jesus, angels, etc. because science is what can be observed, tested, and repeated; that is how we get facts. You can't test the existence of God, Jesus, or angels, so it all comes down to faith. But, we can use science to prove that reality is objective and that miracles can follow objective reason, such as energy. Science doesn't answer the difficult questions of existence.
Straw man argument: "you can't disprove the existence of god..."

Creationism has even been proved true by scientists; there are about 10,000 creationist scientists in the United States, many are afraid to challenge the status quo. If anyone is interested in the truth behind Creationism using science and logic, visit http://drdino.com and watch some of the debates. His debates have brought many science teachers to tears because of the overwhelming evidence of Creation Science.
1) [Citation Needed]
2) Scientists disagreeing with each other is the foundation of science: getting data, formulating a theory, testing the theory, updating the theory and repeating everything ad infinitum. However, Biology is entirely built on the theory of evolution and 99% of the scientists agree with the theory.

Do leprechauns exits? Can you prove it? No, so we have faith that based on cohesive understanding and logic that they don't. But, we can't be sure. We are born destined to be limited by comprehension, and if perfection exists then we will never be able to understand it until we reach a higher level of consciousness.
Again, straw man argument.

2] The authenticity of the Bible - which is God's word, and God's word is guidance for imperfect beings a.k.a. humans to live life in a way to continue loving God - is proof for me.
Circle reasoning: "The bible is authentic because it is god's word, and it's god's word because the bible says so."
Stop using logical fallacies.

3] God's existence can't be proven or disproven, but evidence can be realized over time. I.E.: If you feel something invisible continuing to hit you then you would conclude it's the wind.
Straw man: "You can't prove god doesn't exist".
Also, wind can be detected, measured, explained and reproduced. Can you do the same for god?

4] There have been many strange occurrences which cannot be explained rationally, except if a God was present in an objective reality.
Chance.

5] It's logical. If you think about it, everything is fits in perfectly with the existence of God and Christianity: pain, existence, logic, miracles, events in history, etc.
An all-loving god letting people suffer isn't logic.

People would argue the big bang, but that is just philosophy,which has emerged into a religion nowadays. It is against the law to teach lies in our schools, and yet somehow evolution is taken for granted as a fact as is being taught. $500,000 has been offered for the past 12 years for anyone who can provide facts to support evolution, but no one has claimed it yet. Evolution started out as a theory with no facts to support it. But, it was taught anyway because of the space-race scenario.
Here's my theory: pure water boils at 100°C at 1 bar. I can take water from anywhere, and it'll follow my theory, however I cannot prove my theory because that would require me to test all water molecules (and the ones that are created and destroyed every second) in our universe.

Exactly, we are imperfect and are born destined to be intellectually limited. God did give us cohesive logic however, to make it easier.
Maybe we evolved a sense of logic so we'd see the connection between rubbing sticks and fire, so that we could cook and use fire to fend off predators?

This is a common argument. When you realize who the old testament was written for then you'll realize why that type of negative language was used, but it's not literal.
It is commonly accepted that the Bible is written in metaphors, this also applies to the 2 creation stories (the 7 day story was created when the jews were banished to Babylon, and the story looks a lot like the Babylonian creation myth). You're being a hypocrite: this part of the bible is literal, this one isn't.

Slight variations is mirco-evolution; species do evolve, but only enough to adapt. If species did experience macro-evolution then it would take much longer than theorized, estimated to about 1trillion to 10trillion years due to the complexity of our body and of micro organisms. In terms of Homology, sharing common features doesn't mean we have a common ancester, it means we have a common designer. As for gills, that has been disproven in embryos. Really, marco and micro-evolution have been observed? I thought it took millions of years? No fossils don't, we just fill in the gaps and call it science. In logic there is a law called the Law of the Excluded middle, which means even though two things share similar characteristics, dosen't mean they are the same.
Evolution is adaption, where do you draw the line?

Which is more plausible: god gave us useless tail bones cause he thought they looked cool or we have tail bones because our ancestors had tails to help them balance when climbing trees.

The problem with macro-evolution is that it takes countless generations before you start seeing different species, it's just not possible to take a sample of every generation of a species to show that the species does evolve. This isn't as much of a problem for bacteria, however, as they produce offspring every few minutes.

About excluding the middle: micro-evolution has been observed, we know what mechanisms are behind evolution and we know what the effects can be of changing just 1 base in the genetic material of a gamete. 1 step up: breeding dogs, which is forced evolution, we pick the traits we like and let dogs with those traits mate (we make these traits favorable to have, if you don't have these traits, you can't reproduce), after a few generations, you get a new breed.
Another step up: fossils of primates show a step by step evolution of prehistoric primate to modern man.
Another step up: the stepping-stones between types of animals:

Here are 2 examples of observed evolution:

Gills:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gill_slits

Amen to that.
NA NA NA I CANT HEEEEAAAAR YOUR LOGIC!

Please explain existence in general.
See the part about multiverse theory.

Did you conclude that logically?
Opium has been used by humans since 4200 BC. Opium causes euphoria and altered mood and mental processes, among other things, which could be described as an "I've been touched by god"-feeling. Hallucinogens have been observed being used in other cultures for religious purposes, so why not Christianity?



What's funny is that we don't have these discussions in Europe, even though we have lots of religious people. Even the Vatican admitted that religion and evolution aren't mutually exclusive.

^ Nice :D

adding onto that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiform_appendix

Quote
One potential ancestral purpose put forth by Darwin[3] was that the appendix was used for digesting leaves as primates. Over time, we have eaten fewer vegetables and have evolved, over thousands of years to consume meats, hence this organ to be smaller to make room for our stomach.

also: hahaha star fish

People could go on all day trying to convert each other to their own theories, but at the end of the day its all ignorance. People need to respect each other's beliefs within reason. I didn't read the whole topic but Hunter seemed to make some poor shots at Christianity.

You can worship the sun?

Honestly, I can't see how some people think "God" will save them and "Jesus" is the almighty lord. I don't mean to offend any believers here, and there is a lot of faith required to actually believe in it, but it's all science at the end of the day.

A) You can't see them, hear them, or feel them.

B) Science proves that there is no possible way of giant people floating in the clouds.

C) How the hell is some belief going to keep us all alive?

Now the sun, it's totally different.

A) You can see it's light, and you can feel the heat from it.

B) We already know that the sun quite clearly exists.

C) Without it, we might as well call our planet a chunk of ice.

George Carlin did a huge comedy part about warshipping the sun instead, it's pretty funny, but has a lot of meaning.

EDIT: Lol "Warship."

hes 1000% right

Isolated how? Give me the link if you find it.
Isolation is more abstract than putting a wall between two groups of organisms. Example: some birds have a beak which can open up snail shells, while other birds of the same species don't, these two groups are isolated.

Medicine would not cause a decrease or instant stop of evolution, this is not logical. It is also not logical for evolution to reverse if the environment which caused the mutation doesn't reverse with it.
Medicine does affect our evolutionary path. Example: in the middle ages near-sighted people had to stay at home and take care of the house because they couldn't see much, because of this, they had less chance of meeting a partner and reproducing. Nowadays, glasses negate the effects of the faulty genes that cause myopia, thus near-sighted people have as much chance of reproducing as other people and myopia is no longer an unfavorable trait thus it isn't filtered out.

There is no reason for a dog to change species, small variations are logical. If a dog can't adapt then it leaves to return to it's natural habitat or it dies.
In complex organisms, you can only change the genetic material of your offspring, you can't change a trait you already have. Dogs that have favorable traits have greater odds of survival and reproduction, thus there will be more dogs with the favorable trait than dogs without it.

Bacteria becomes resistant because it looses information, not because it gains new information. And that would still be a micro mutation, not full-fledged evolution. Micro organisms must have biology that functions perfectly or it will die. Thus, it can't evolve unless it's a small mutation such as an increased resistance. There is also no reason for it to mutate completely.
Wrong. Bacteria could gain a gene that synthesizes a protein that cancels out penicillin, which means that it gained information to become resistant. Second possibility: The gene that encodes a protein that's vulnerable to penicillin mutates so that the penicillin no longer affects it, the genetic material changed but didn't lose genetic information. Third possibility: the gene that make the bacteria vulnerable is deleted, the bacteria is no longer vulnerable, it lost genetic information.
As you can see, evolving a resistance isn't just a matter of removing genes.

A problem with evolution is this: All living organisms come from living organisms right? Well then where did the first living organisms come from? I heard a theory about after the big bang the earth was incredibly hot, and the rain cooled it down which caused matter to melt and form a primordial soup, but that has not been proven to create life nor is it a logical conclusion. However, I will never look at "soup" the same way again -_-
"After the big bang" is pretty vague...
It hasn't been proven because no one was there to record it with their camcorder, however, it has been proven that the conditions of the primitive earth were ideal for creating the building blocks of life: nucleotides, amino-acids and lipids. Creating synthetic life is something scientists are trying to do right now, and they're getting closer and closer, but it's pretty hard due to the complex nature of organisms after millions of years of evolution, the nature of working with complex chemicals, and the scale at which scientists must work.

Upon that, due to the magnetic force of the earth, the increased growth of the deserts, the reverse flow of the river through the grand canon, the inconsistencies with carbon dating, and many other factors leading to a "young-earth" situation, evolution just doesn't seem plausible. I seriously doubt humans can mutation from micro organisms within a couple billion years anyway.
Oh dear, young earth creationists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRvt0InhYk

TheGeek explained it better then I ever could.

Isolated how? Give me the link if you find it.

Well, a river splits up the species and the 2 different "tribes," if you will, evolve differently. So much so that they can no longer mate.


Medicine would not cause a decrease or instant stop of evolution, this is not logical. It is also not logical for evolution to reverse if the environment which caused the mutation doesn't reverse with it.

Nature was what caused mutations to stay around, it didn't cause mutations. If a frog had the ability to fly for some odd reason, it would probably survive therefore eventually creating a new species if his gene stayed with the babies he created. From this we can say that medicine would cause bad mutations to stick around... Although I doubt bad mutations will make humans go backwards. people with "bad" mutations don't usually get all the ladies.

A problem with evolution is this: All living organisms come from living organisms right? Well then where did the first living organisms come from? I heard a theory about after the big bang the earth was incredibly hot, and the rain cooled it down which caused matter to melt and form a primordial soup, but that has not been proven to create life nor is it a logical conclusion. However, I will never look at "soup" the same way again -_-

Primordial soup isn't where the earth cooled down and osht there's a lion. It supposedly was where there were the exact things needed to make nucleotides. (Thar we go.) The earth is presumed to have been extremely stormy and dangerous. The lightning caused the nucleotides to form eventually making DNA and a primitive type of prokaryote.


Upon that, due to the magnetic force of the earth, the increased growth of the deserts, the reverse flow of the river through the grand canon, the inconsistencies with carbon dating, and many other factors leading to a "young-earth" situation, evolution just doesn't seem plausible. I seriously doubt humans can mutation from micro organisms within a couple billion years anyway.

Deserts grow because most plants can't grow on sand. The closer the deserts get to plants the harder it is for them to grow. Eventually the plants die off and the desert takes over. (Of course, that is an educated guess from what I've learned. If someone has a definite answer or wants to confirm this be my guest.) Also the humans mutating from microorganisms problem you have can be explained kind of like being paid a penny doubled every day for a month. 1x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2 x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x 2x2 is a big number. Take one organism and if you get 2 or more new ones from it you get a lot more over time.



« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 04:23:20 PM by Mateo »

Is it me or is GSF confusing "logical" with "rational"? Because whenever I read his statements, it's filled with conflicting views and utterly bogus attempts to skirt around issues like "evolution".

Really, go read a book that's not a Christian alternative to anything. Or stay in the dark in your fundamentalist encampment and fear witches until the rapture.


Found this to be relevant.

Cyclical logic is something God intended! Because the Dinosaurs knew too much.


Which is why you don't need to know. YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW.

buy more bibles

Why can't evolution and creation coexist in your minds?