A sudden emurgence of christian nuts...

[lolzorz mcgee]

Okay I know I was going to sleep but I have an answer to that. In the Bible, somewhere in the beginning, it says that God wanted a likeness of himself and he created you-know-who. I'm to sleepy to notice how I contradicted myself, point that out and I'll check it out tomorrow.

gladly, my weary friend. :D

First, you said God planned everything out to the last detail.  Then, you said he would let people choose what they would do.

You can't really plan too many things if there's THAT big of a variable in a plan.

[Ad Bot]

[Ladios]

Okay I know I was going to sleep but I have an answer to that. In the Bible, somewhere in the beginning, it says that God wanted a likeness of himself and he created you-know-who.

Voldemort?!?!


Also, on that note, the in likeness of himself, I beleive that is the key there, in how and why God gave us free will.
Free will is the most important thing there is in this world.

[MtnDew]

God has promoted ladios to messiah (auto)

[Wynd_Fox]

Just read the black print.
The blues are arguments I posted for the sake of skipping the usual things I first come across when I present my ideas.

The black was quite well written, but I'm going to bed. (Unlike Russian, I really am.)

[Captain Katz]

The black was quite well written, but I'm going to bed. (Unlike Russian, I really am.)

As am I...

[lolzorz mcgee]

As am I...

Ditto.

[Ladios]

First, you said God planned everything out to the last detail.  Then, you said he would let people choose what they would do.

You can't really plan too many things if there's THAT big of a variable in a plan.

I actually have an argument to that based on that every choice leads to a specific path (though each path has their own choices creating a web)
I had a 2 page loving explanation for that too. It was so epic... but now of course loving steven hawking came up with something almost identical to that. Think its called matrix theory or something like that. Too lazy to actually look it up and read about it right now though

[MtnDew]

Thus, creating america.

[pixl]

[Gamefandan]

Religion:

Whatever you believe in is true.

Whatever you think will happen when you die, will happen.

Whatever god you believe in, exists.


Religion is true in the mind, the mind reflects onto the soul, therefore, whatever you spiritually believe, is going to end up being true in the long run.

[Niliscro]

I like Isaac Newton's belief.

I fundamental belief that "God is simply the clockmaker, Made the clock, then sat back and let the clock operate on it's own"

That's diesm, which is the belief and worship of a god without all of the divine interventions and whatnot of other religions.  It could also be agnosticism, if no worship is involved.

[Niliscro]

Edit:
Nevermind, I didn't notice he addressed his god as God in that quote, making it a name of a god, and therefore most likely diesm, rather than agnosticism.

Than again, this also means it could be Christianity, so disregard.

[The Russian]

He planned to give us choice. Also, it is very hard and sometimes impossible to understand God because our mental capacity is not even nearly big enough to grasp some ideas. Such as immortality, how God wasn't created but just was and never had a start, and how he has such powers.

[The Russian]

The black was quite well written, but I'm going to bed. (Unlike Russian, I really am.)

I did go to sleep, it's just hard typing really long responses without having 9 extra other posts that came while you were typing to answer.

[Inv3rted]

-read the whole thread next time-

You didn't acknowledge a word I said.

How can I disprove the God you believe in? (not all deities, just the specific omnipotent one that spread the most foul stuff on our species)

Quite simple.

I ask you the question: Is your God infinite?

There are two answers that you can give me that are definite: yes and no.

If you say yes, then we proceed to the next step. If you say no, then you have just undermined your core beliefs. If the core creator is not infinite, it must have been created. Therefore it is not the creator.

If you answered yes, you have also disproved your God's existence. Infinity is something unachievable in the finite universe we exist in. Now, of course you are going to run off to google and say "OH LOOK AT ALL OF THESE THINGS OF INFINITE THIS AND THAT" without understanding that they are not literally infinite, but practically so. Take the gravitational pull of a black hole. People say it has infinite gravity, but it does not. It is just so massive that particles moving at the speed of light (something that can not be achieved by anything with mass, due to special relativity, because this speed would require an infinite amount of energy, and infinities are not possible) can not escape. Without mass, anything can move at the speed of light (but not faster) because Newton's second law and its applications.

But I digress, and so now I will refer to the rebuttals I expect you will provide.

1. God exists in spiritual form, therefore is immaterial and supernatural.
If something is immaterial, it does not exist. There is no way that anything supernatural exists, by definition. Supernatural means it is above nature, and anything above nature is not nature and therefore does not exist within nature. To say that there is a spiritual form of a superior being is pure speculation. It can not be documented, it can not be observed, it can not be tested. Therefore it is not science. If something can not be shown to exist by the scientific method, it simply does not exist in our reality.
2. God exists outside of our universe, and so does not need to follow its laws.
There is no existing outside of the universe, because the universe is existence. If you say that God dwells in a parallel universe, there are laws there that must be followed, albeit different from this universe's. If something exists, it can not be above the rules of existence.

There is also the 'free will' argument that you people tend to love.

You say that evil exists because God granted humanity the ability of free will.

There are more flaws in this statement than in the assumption that a theory is not true.

God is omni-everything, as I like to put it. He can predict anything, cause anything, stop anything, create anything, do anything. The Universe and its laws are his plaything and construction set (unfortunately not possible, but I'll play along). If he really is omniscient, he will have predicted the existence of evil long before first sin. If he really is omnipotent, he would have had the power to stop it. If he really was Wholly Good, as the Bible says, he would have stopped it. But, evil exists, and therefore God does not.

Furthermore, let's take a look the original sin concept (harmful to humanity, because it makes us believe that we were once higher than we are currently and fell due to unnatural immorality (what an oxymoron), and this assumption makes us be less tolerant of what life is and what suffering is. Good and evil isn't so black and white). God, with his perfection, creates a perfect creation with free will. Of course, this free will must include the naive ability to be exploited to break orders that are not explained properly. If God created everything, then God would have created the root of all evil, namely Satan. If God created Satan, he created the exploiter and humans with the ability to be exploited. Therefore, he caused the fall from Eden, and he is to blame for original sin.

There is also the question as to why a God would torture his own creations because they made decisions he allowed them to make, rather than simply destroying them for being faulty (creations of perfection shouldn't have faults...) This makes me see God as a sadist, the root of all evil, a poor designer, and possibly every other negative attribute you can assign to anything.

I'd rather burn in hell than worship this sack of stuff of a man in the clouds.