Author Topic: Kids and politics  (Read 38199 times)

I'm just saying that I know that I'm only 15 and I understand that I know very little on the ways of the world. Seeing as how you are in the real world not being cared for by your parents and having to work for what you get I would believe that you know a little more than him or me.
Yup, a lot of innocence is lost as soon as one moves out on their own. Something he will eventually learn. But let him live in his perfect little world for a bit longer. It's more funny when they get their wake up call.

What ever. You have your morals, and i have mine. It is hard to change anothers persons morals. I do know some things. I do follow modern politics when i can. You have your opinions and i have mine. These are based on morals and like morals, opinions are hard to change and i doubt yours or mine will change due to just arguing. Not all science is true or has been proven true, and not all religion is true. I did not know about parkinsons disease until devildog flamed me on it. And what functions does Parkinson's disease prevent devil dog? So i say lets stop talking about whats moral and get back to politics Like Iran's Nuclear site or Al-Queda posssibly taking over yemen or Health care reform because we can't change eact others opinions or morals by flaming each other.
This is often what people say when they give up arguing on da interwebz, have fun with your lots

lol yeah forget that.

This isn't some family argument or close friend or coworker. This is the internet, there is no agreeing to disagree bullstuff here. if your tired of arguing or simply have no more argument, then you admit loss or leave the discussion. this isnt 4th grade lunch break.

You never specified any specific rules to be omitted, you said any moral that comes from religion. You can't specify and omit what you like just because it will help your argument.
1. The fact of the matter is that you already follow the first commandment. Not to worship any other god than him. You don't do that. You don't worship any god for that matter. So one down.
2. As an atheist, you wouldn't make any carved images in the first place to worship anything. That's two down.
3. As an atheist, you don't believe in a god so you can't take his name in vain. That's three down.
4. Keeping the Sabbath day holy. You're 15, and I doubt you have a job, so you're not really working either. That's four. Seems like for not being a religious person, we're 4 for 4 on the commandment obeying list.
So you don't really need to be religious to follow religious rules of moral behavior.
Just dull down your hate trip of religious things. We know you don't believe, we don't care either. Morals, ethics, commandments, whatever you care to call it, they're rules for cooperating with your fellow man. You just enjoy going on your hate trips, we understand, but the more you do, the less we care to listen.
semantics are fun, no?
in regards to the 1st commandment, that's in conjunction with the belief that you need to actually be in the act of worshiping him, so there's 1.
2. forget you beat me there
3. taking the lord's name in vain is just saying "OH loving CHRIST!" or "OH loving GOD DAMNIT BITCH!" or something like that, it's not specified that you believe in said god (and anyways, most of us atheists realize that saying "OH loving GOD DAMNIT BITCH!" pisses off those crazy theists anyways, as in we be doing it in vain o.O)
4.It doesn't specify work as in what students do (homework=work, it's in the name) Some of the ten commandments deal specifically with religion and don't need to be followed, although I do agree the actual morals in the rest of the commandments should be followed, but because they help facilitate a functioning society, not because some stone supposedly written by some oxy-moronic being

Nightzet, the Joker is really gay
EDIT: actually its not really the joker as much as the kids who dress up like them for halloween
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 07:57:32 PM by devildogelite »

« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 09:35:38 PM by Nightzet467 »

Since you are not religious, would it be fair for me to assume that you believe that religion was constructed and in fact evolved around a of commonly held set of beliefs, principles, practices and superstitions? And that, indeed, if religion is only a construct of humans that originated in a set of common beliefs, the commonly held set of beliefs that are behind the religion must have come first? People have to believe something is true before they can tell themselves God says it's true. And using the definition of morals as a commonly held system of what is right and wrong, morals most likely emerged before religion?

I'm not saying that all morals are from religion, and I thought I made that clear in a previous post. I am saying that our society is infested with religious morals, which we do not need and are harmful to society.


Perhaps the morals we follow, while surrounded in what you believe to be a lot of mysticism, have a far more ancient origin. Many morals are not specific to any particular religion, perhaps they emerged simultaneously around the world in different cultures and tribes because they were necessary for the survival of society?

There is no 'belief' of mysticism here. Religion is mystic by default. Indeed, the point you are making here is exactly why I am saying religion is not required for morality. Religious morality is harmful to society.

Morals, while a key part of many religions, are not in and of themselves religious. An example of a moral is "Killing is wrong." Many people believe "Killing is wrong because God says so" but also believe "Killing is wrong." I'm not entirely certain what it is what you want to do. You say that you want to produce a "religiousless set of morals." I believe that morals are inherently religiousless although they may have a religious context and history built around them. The Ten Commandments have no real use, considering they have basic ethical doctrines mixed in with arrogant policies to give power to controllers. Morality, as I said a while back, is essentially what is good and bad for the species as a whole. Things that damage society are immoral because our species requires society. Things that directly harm other members of the species are immoral because that's quite obviously direct harm to the species. It appears to me anyway, that what you really mean to say is that "I am afraid that in current society morals are taught in a fashion that leads people to see them in a religious context and I cannot stand it." No, what I am saying is that people take doctrines directly out of religious texts and attempt to make them apply to society. This is fundamentally wrong. Other moral arguments in current society arise from ignorance directly (STEM CELL RESEARCH KILLS BABIES), but are overwhelmingly agreed with by the conservative Christians, whose fundamental beliefs revolve around ignoring the scientific process. There could not be anything worse for society than that.
Snackbar appears to be saying that ethical behavior (and by the way your argument of secular ethics vs superstitious morals does not fly with my dictionary) can exist outside of religion and that just because a moral may appear in a religious context does not necessarily mean it should be ignored, which appears to actually agree with what you are arguing. Rughugger never said ethical behavior could not exist outside of religion, you built up your own straw man. He and others implied that the Ten Commandments were valid moral guidelines. This, in turn, implies that removal of any commandments, which are said to be 'moral', would be immoral.

Also calling them idiots makes you look like a huge douchebag and takes away from whatever point you appear to be trying to make but I'm sure you don't care.

You're right.

Yup, a lot of innocence is lost as soon as one moves out on their own. Something he will eventually learn. But let him live in his perfect little world for a bit longer. It's more funny when they get their wake up call.

Again you show your conceited arrogance referring to your oh so experienced life. I thought just two seconds ago you said that you had a lot to learn, too? I am fully aware of how the world operates. I am fully aware of problems in the world. I am not as sheltered as you think.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 08:12:24 PM by Inv3rted »

Quote
I'm not saying that all morals are from religion, and I thought I made that clear in a previous post. I am saying that our society is infested with religious morals, which we do not need and are harmful to society.

I see no other possible way to interpret
Quote
Morals are just ethical codes with religious undertones. They are horrible for society. forget off, Christbag
and
Quote
Morals are bullstuff from religion. Ethics is the proper way to behave in society.

Although I guess when somebody called you out on that and you revised it to
Quote
What I mean is that the morals we are told to follow in our culture stem from religion, and therefore should be ignored. We should have a new code of conduct totally separate from religion, which will be the ethics of an ideal society.
which clears it up a little bit.

You're both idiots for assuming that ethical behavior cannot exist without religion. It's funny how you only mentioned the commandments that actually have a purpose. I'd rather my children never follow this list of handicapation:

quote

I think we could all do without that. This list is in fact harmful because it equates the pointless rules above with murder, rape, adultery, and theft.

I'm still at a loss as to how having no other gods before the one true god, refusing to worship idols, not using your god's name in vain and keeping the sabbath holy hurts society. These rules only affect Christians. Christians don't mind them, and nobody else cares. Christians might try and convince you their religion is the one true one, but they sure don't try and drag you into church with them on Sunday or set your house on fire because you said "OH MY GOD." They hurt nobody. Maybe having them occasionally knock on your door and try and sell you a bible is a inconvenience to you, but it's a minor one at worst. If you want to argue that they are hurting themselves by not believing in science and that the lost productivity from people not working on Sundays is probably worth billions, fine, but seriously, I think you're going to have a hard time justifying that these rules alone do something bad to society.

You say it's because they are treated as equal. Perhaps all are equal before God (but who's to say, you're not God) but you're going to have trouble finding a Christian who is going to be more concerned about people using Jesus Christ as an exclamation than people getting raped.

Also if you read the rest of the chapter you would find that there are different degrees of each sin, and the punishments are clearly not equal. But I know reading mystic books is a challenge for you. It was hard enough for you to google "LIST OF TEN COMMANDMENTS."

Quote
There is no 'belief' of mysticism here. Religion is mystic by default. Indeed, the point you are making here is exactly why I am saying religion is not required for morality. Religious morality is harmful to society.

I had a lot of trouble responding to what you said here because I could not understand it in the context of what you were quoting.

It sounds like you're reasserting your belief that religion is not real. Fine. I don't care. That's not what I'm talking about.

Quote
The Ten Commandments have no real use, considering they have basic ethical doctrines mixed in with arrogant policies to give power to controllers. Morality, as I said a while back, is essentially what is good and bad for the species as a whole. Things that damage society are immoral because our species requires society. Things that directly harm other members of the species are immoral because that's quite obviously direct harm to the species.

The Ten Commandments do have a use. They codify God's word obviously. Why don't you ask a Christian what their use is?

Quote
No, what I am saying is that people take doctrines directly out of religious texts and attempt to make them apply to society. This is fundamentally wrong. Other moral arguments in current society arise from ignorance directly (STEM CELL RESEARCH KILLS BABIES), but are overwhelmingly agreed with by the conservative Christians, whose fundamental beliefs revolve around ignoring the scientific process. There could not be anything worse for society than that.

Hey finally. "Some Christians interpret the bible in a way that compels them to make bad public policy." Go on.

How Christian morality is killing America is way too vague to argue compellingly in 4 forum posts (or even 20). You could get a book deal for that, although judging from your previous posts your editor would probably run out of red ink. What about Muslim morality? What about Hindu morality? Is there a reason you focus on Christians solely? Do you even know anything about Islam? What about other religions? If not, how can you make a claim about all religion based on Christianity? If so, why haven't you mentioned them? What if I could cite an example of a good thing morality did for every bad thing you say it does? For example (and this is wild speculation with no figures or sources but you shouldn't have any problem with that) suppose tidings given by Christians had enough value that they saved more lives than stem cell research did? Does this make up for negative effects of their opposition? Why not?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 09:35:21 PM by Wedge »



How Christian morality is killing America is way too vague to argue compellingly in 4 forum posts (or even 20). You could get a book deal for that, although judging from your previous posts your editor would probably run out of red ink. What about Muslim morality? What about Hindu morality? Is there a reason you focus on Christians solely? Do you even know anything about Islam? What about other religions? If not, how can you make a claim about all religion based on Christianity? If so, why haven't you mentioned them? What if I could cite an example of a good thing morality did for every bad thing you say it does? For example (and this is wild speculation with no figures or sources but you shouldn't have any problem with that) suppose tidings given by Christians had enough value that they saved more lives than stem cell research did? Does this make up for negative effects of their opposition? Why not?
Imma say that using religious beliefs to argue politics is dumb and leave it at that. Inv3rted is a "fringe" atheist. Muslim "morality" admittedly isn't the greatest, but neither are the SUPAH CHRISTIANS who seem intent on bombing abortion clinics (in an effort to be obtrusive of their Christian values).  What negative effects are spawned for lobbying for stem cell research? Stem cell research is a bad example seeing as, in America, little progress has been made thanks to Mein Fuhrer Bush, a man who exemplified mixing religion and politics

I see no other possible way to interpret and
Although I guess when somebody called you out on that and you revised it towhich clears it up a little bit.

I'm still at a loss as to how having no other gods before the one true god, refusing to worship idols, not using your god's name in vain and keeping the sabbath holy hurts society. These rules only affect Christians. Christians don't mind them, and nobody else cares. Christians might try and convince you their religion is the one true one, but they sure don't try and drag you into church with them on Sunday or set your house on fire because you said "OH MY GOD." They hurt nobody. Maybe having them occasionally knock on your door and try and sell you a bible is a inconvenience to you, but it's a minor one at worst. If you want to argue that they are hurting themselves by not believing in science and that the lost productivity from people not working on Sundays is probably worth billions, fine, but seriously, I think you're going to have a hard time justifying that these rules alone do something bad to society.

You say it's because they are treated as equal. Perhaps all are equal before God (but who's to say, you're not God) but you're going to have trouble finding a Christian who is going to be more concerned about people using Jesus Christ as an exclamation than people getting raped.

Also if you read the rest of the chapter you would find that there are different degrees of each sin, and the punishments are clearly not equal. But I know reading mystic books is a challenge for you. It was hard enough for you to google "LIST OF TEN COMMANDMENTS."

I had a lot of trouble responding to what you said here because I could not understand it in the context of what you were quoting.

It sounds like you're reasserting your belief that religion is not real. Fine. I don't care. That's not what I'm talking about.

The Ten Commandments do have a use. They codify God's word obviously. Why don't you ask a Christian what their use is?

Hey finally. "Some Christians interpret the bible in a way that compels them to make bad public policy." Go on.

How Christian morality is killing America is way too vague to argue compellingly in 4 forum posts (or even 20). You could get a book deal for that, although judging from your previous posts your editor would probably run out of red ink. What about Muslim morality? What about Hindu morality? Is there a reason you focus on Christians solely? Do you even know anything about Islam? What about other religions? If not, how can you make a claim about all religion based on Christianity? If so, why haven't you mentioned them? What if I could cite an example of a good thing morality did for every bad thing you say it does? For example (and this is wild speculation with no figures or sources but you shouldn't have any problem with that) suppose tidings given by Christians had enough value that they saved more lives than stem cell research did? Does this make up for negative effects of their opposition? Why not?

I mention Christianity the most because it has the most influence in domestic politics. I am not as ignorant as you are implying here. All three of the Judeochristian religions have the same basic concepts, all of whom are not good. Christianity in the United States has skewed politics in a lethal way.

I thought I stated I was referring to religious morality before I actually did, and I worded those posts very poorly.

When you say I assert my belief that something is not true, you are essentially saying that asserting the view that anything without evidence should not be believed is moronic.

"The Ten Commandments do have a use. They codify God's word obviously. Why don't you ask a Christian what their use is?"

Why don't I ask the manufacturer of a DVD re-winder what its use is? There is no logical reason to include the first four commandments, and yet they are said to be valued moral guidelines. Moral in what way? Promoting bigotry and censorship? That's all they do.

It is not just Judeo-Christian morality that harms this country, it is some of their basic ways of thinking. For example, there is an overwhelming tendency to assert that God did something because it cannot be explained. If this assertion is accepted, we would not advance in science at all.

"I had a lot of trouble responding to what you said here because I could not understand it in the context of what you were quoting."

You said that morals existed before religion, which is fits exactly into why we do not need religion for morality.  

"I'm still at a loss as to how having no other gods before the one true god, refusing to worship idols, not using your god's name in vain and keeping the sabbath holy hurts society. These rules only affect Christians."

They directly promote bigotry and intolerance, and not in the argue / debate manner which I pioneer on this forum (yell expletives and arguments and hope someone gives up). If someone works on the sabbath, has a different view about religion (another problem with religion in general: intolerance of each other), and uses common phrases such as "OH MY GOD" (which is so ingrained into our society that even I say it), they are viewed as unholy by the Judeo-Christian religions and therefore frowned upon.

"You say it's because they are treated as equal. Perhaps all are equal before God (but who's to say, you're not God) but you're going to have trouble finding a Christian who is going to be more concerned about people using Jesus Christ as an exclamation than people getting raped."

They are treated as equal. Out of 10 possible rules, would those four be the ones you pick? Now you say you're not God and neither am I, but if a God goes against human morality, as imperfect as it is, what kind of God is this? Would you worship him because he's good or you want to go heaven? This God is jealous, a quality that even humans can control.

Unsubscribe to NBC plz.

At least they don't commit libel every three seconds.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 10:41:17 PM by Inv3rted »

This God is jealous, a quality that even humans can control.
yet hundreds of millions of people worship him

Holy crap guys, inverted has way to much time