Healthcare Bill passed House tonight

[Bisjac]

Any time a government holds the strings of an entire society's economic system there's bound to be some form of corruption

so by your incorrect definition, we ARE currently socialist now?

[Ad Bot]

[Swholli]

Socialism can't work because we are human. Any time a government holds the strings of an entire society's economic system there's bound to be some form of corruption. It's impossible to have a 100% benevolent socialist government.

Pretty much what Shwolli said.

Also, in response to what Bisjac said as I was posting, there is no perfect form of government. There will always be some way that someone finds to forget it up somewhere along the line. However, with socialism and an economy controlled by the government, you know what else the government controls? The military. Taxes. Our healthcare. Our education. The private sector cannot control everything that the government controls at once. It's not a perfect system, but it's better than socialism.

Well...

Socialism, in certain degrees, can work. It's different than just straight up communism. It's a mixed economy, meaning the market is still free, but everything else is government controlled.

A great example is France, or Britain. They've had socialism for quite some time now and they still exist, and are thriving. It's just how you handle the situation, and make sure you apply the correct means.

Edit:

Yeah, you pretty much described everything we are. The private sector doesn't control that, and socialism makes sure of that as well. Socialism isn't the evil here, it's the people running it we should worry about.

[Bisjac]

we can all pretend things are democratic/capitalist, but the united states currently are not.
we are ONLY a captialistgovernment. the businesses control politicians as have been proven again and again these last few years.
and ALL politics are  being done to protect these individual's business interests.

this isnt some conspiracy government gossip, its the fact as most Americans are aware of.

socialism would be what the country desperately needs.


Thomas Jefferson, 1802
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

this is a VERY accurate description of what the country has become. and that was a what-if worst case situation he was trying to prevent. the actual evil.

[Swholli]

yup and yup

/agree

[Sirrus]

so by your incorrect definition, we ARE currently socialist now?

"a political theory advocating state ownership of industry"

I'd say I got pretty close.

[NotInsaneChef]

what is this healthcare

[Swholli]

Here's the Bill (abridged for easy access to important points): http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/03/18/section.brown townysis.pdf

In case you haven't read it, or if it hasn't been posted here.

Also, Sirrus, would you like to be on the show this Saturday? You opinions are entirely opposite of mine, and you make well constructed points. We need some more debate to make the show interesting.

[Bisjac]

sure on paper, NOW the government officially is in control of this industry.

but for the last 100 years the government controlled it anyway.
at least now the corrupt politicians that work with insurance companies aren't earning money off us.

you seem to not really understand the improvement at all. your parents must love being taken advantage of.

[Sirrus]

Also, Sirrus, would you like to be on the show this Saturday? You opinions are entirely opposite of mine, and you make well constructed points. We need some more debate to make the show interesting.

Sure, I'll come on the show if I can get a few points that you want to discuss so that I can prepare a bit. Also I need a time on Saturday and I need to check my mic and such.

your parents must love being taken advantage of.

If you're implying that my parents have raised me to be like this, you're wrong. Both my parents are Democrats and in full support of Obama and this bill, along with most of my family and the overwhelming majority of my community.

[Swholli]

Yeah, if you want our show notes on Friday, that's the earliest I can give them, as we call that our deadline for collecting topics.

[RedSaturn]

Kill the bill

[Inv3rted]

If you're implying that my parents have raised me to be like this, you're wrong. Both my parents are Democrats and in full support of Obama and this bill, along with most of my family and the overwhelming majority of my community.

Ah, the guy who switches to conservatism in a bid to flaunt his intelligence.

Thomas Jefferson was a great man who pioneered the concept of the separation of church and state, had fell thought out financial policies, and of course wrote the Declaration.

I personally think that healthcare should be mixed private and public, but the public insurance option was taken out of the bill due to the crybaby antics of Republicans who want their next campaign to be financed well.

[Ladios]

Because of this thing, my dad's girlfriend was instantly approved by whatever insurance thing we had for foot surgery that she was trying to get for the past 5 years. Just because the company knew it would have to do it in the future due to this bill.

If this hadn't happened she would need crutches indefinatley.
Yay socialized medicine.

[Hugums]

Yeah, if you want our show notes on Friday, that's the earliest I can give them, as we call that our deadline for collecting topics.

osht, send me the link again please. Or bring the topic back.

Also, Am I the only American that supports this?

[Swholli]

Ah, the guy who switches to conservatism in a bid to flaunt his intelligence.

Thomas Jefferson was a great man who pioneered the concept of the separation of church and state, had fell thought out financial policies, and of course wrote the Declaration.

I personally think that healthcare should be mixed private and public, but the public insurance option was taken out of the bill due to the crybaby antics of Republicans who want their next campaign to be financed well.

Well yeah, everyone knows Obama wants his legacy to be healthcare, and the Republicans want to win next term. They're trying to ruin his reelection, it's plainly obvious. They don't care about healthcare, they get payed overpriced salaries as it is.

And I worry if they seriously consider running Palin on the ticket.