Forum philosophy discussion topic

[Riot]

Please do.

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[Wizard]

counter arguments.

1. Your whole reason here is based off of another theory (occam's razor, which in itself has multiple flaws), and that there can't be infinite movers
Occam's razor just says that the simplest answer must be true. While it has its flaws it's a lot more likely that the universe started from a beach ball then god.
there can't be infinite movers because everything must have a cause, so there must be a starting point. (god is the starting point, always existed)
If everything has a cause then god must have a cause. He states a law (that everything has a cause) and then says that it isn't true!

2. see 1

3. There must be a being because only something like that posses the intelligence to start everything. so the being must be sentient and all powerful (god)
You don't need intelligence to start anything. There's plenty research done on abiogenesis, for instance, a completely intelligence free way to start life, for example..

4. couldn't have worded it better, from: http://www.saintaquinas.com/belief_in_God.html
The principal is just false, though. There isn't always a maximum holder of a characteristic, it's just not true.

5. everything serves an end, gravity for example, serves the end of keeping us in orbit around the sun, on the earth, etc. it was created by god for these purposes and has rules that WE gave it to explain it.
It would act on the rules regardless of whether or not we know them or not (it has for millions of years). You're making arguments for god by assuming there's a god, that doesn't make any sense.

btw, i would be more than happy to continue this with any person via PM rather than spam up this topic
I'll be continuing it here unless the topic is locked or the op asks.

Please do.

alright op, last post.

[Dodger]

What if I add, the essence of us was created possible when the big bang played its major part.

Are you basically saying that inside the ball that contained everything, it also contained the essence of life? Sort of like religion and the soul of a human, like it contained an infinite amount of ghosts ready to take on an organic form?

[Wizard]

There's no such thing as souls or ghosts or life essence. You're just a biological construct. Deal with it.

[Riot]

 I wasn't referring to spirits no. I was just offering my opinion that we were born when the universe was born.

[Nethog]

No because when you die you must of had a life to die from.

[Dodger]

There's no such thing as souls or ghosts or life essence. You're just a biological construct. Deal with it.

I wasn't referring to spirits no. I was just offering my opinion that we were born when the universe was born.

Too many travel channel specials got me thinking about ghosts.

Also, reminds me a lot of Carl Sagan when he says we are made of the universe, so you could draw a conclusion that life was imminent once the big bang happened and the universe as we know it was pretty much underway in development.

[Wizard]

I'm a huge fan of Sagan but the fact that we're made of starstuff has nothing to do with when life itself began.

[Riot]

Look at it this way the way I do. When you die your body is deconstructed until it takes a new form. Before I was born there were atoms waiting to be me.

[Wizard]

They weren't waiting as they aren't conscious. They were doing other things.

[Dodger]

I'm a huge fan of Sagan but the fact that we're made of starstuff has nothing to do with when life itself began.

What I am failing to state is that I was thinking you could draw the conclusion that we were all born as soon as the big bang occurred because the resources that made us (starstuff) were released and slowly started developing our world, thus the birth of life may have occurred then.

I don't believe in the big bang, I'm just trying to draw some sort of conclusion from this and at least try to further myself a bit in the deep thought process of Philosophy, so I will sound uneducated in certain areas of specific fact and how that applies to higher level thought.

Look at it this way the way I do. When you die your body is deconstructed until it takes a new form. Before I was born there were atoms waiting to be me.

Thats what I was trying to conclude basically, so yeah.

[IkeTheGeneric]

Hey look Wizard is in this thread.

Surprising.

[Riot]

They weren't waiting as they aren't conscious. They were doing other things.

Well no crap, they were doing me 17 years ago.

[Solid]

lol god

[Riot]

 This is a very serious point solid