Author Topic: America is done, folks.  (Read 22751 times)

I just read the whole topic. I honestly feel that I don't have enough information on this. Also, the NY Times doesn't seem to have mentioned any of this at all. Is that saying something?

Honestly Canada is a great country. I wouldn't mind abandoning this center of controversy for the top hat.

NO.

You richardweed. It is nothing like that.

They control your loving life.

This is already a passed bill awaiting signature.

This could become law before loving Christmas.

NO.

Stop it. This is loving serious.

I don't think Obama would sign a bill like this. This sounds completely unconstitutional and can be challenged by the Supreme Court. Plus, I don't think many of our soldiers are incompetent and morally unsound enough to shoot another American citizen, even if they're allowed to.

Yes, this is concerning, but CALM THE forget DOWN.



EDIT: Also, looky what I found.

Quote from: Wikipedia
The National Defense Authorization Act is the name of a United States federal law that has been enacted for each of the past 48 fiscal years to specify the budget and expenditures of the United States Department of Defense.

Plus, that news source looks Swedish to me. I expect this is not a valid source.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 10:05:54 AM by Comatose »


As far as I'm seeing, this bill doesn't exist. I'm not seeing anything on any major news sites about this matter.


As far as I'm seeing, this bill doesn't exist. I'm not seeing anything on any major news sites about this matter.
Yeah, so it seems. Can't find anything either.



Apparently, the bill is just a way for the military to earn some extra spending money.  I guess they added some stuff to the bill since last year.

Personally I consider WIRED a major news source, or at the very least a credible one. They'd have no reason to lie.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/12/senate-military-detention/

I don't think Obama would sign a bill like this. This sounds completely unconstitutional and can be challenged by the Supreme Court. Plus, I don't think many of our soldiers are incompetent and morally unsound enough to shoot another American citizen, even if they're allowed to.

Yes, this is concerning, but CALM THE forget DOWN.

Secondly, thank you, we've already figured that out several pages back.

Oh thank God.

Official word from the White House:

Quote
The White House has stated it will veto the bill due to the provision, but not necessarily for the reasons most critics are concerned with. They instead believe that the bill takes power away from the president and hands it to the military: “Any bill that challenges or constrains the President’s critical authorities to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists, and protect the Nation would prompt the President’s senior advisers to recommend a veto.”

So long as Obama keeps his end of this statement up, they may very well be able to kill this thing after all.


Again, I've already "calmed down". It's just that this bill does exist. The problem I had was the way it existed when it was first drafted in the wording that it included "all American Citizens" as the supposed target. That has since changed thankfully and now it only targets people who are assumed terrorists. Now, mind you, if the government really wanted to, under this bill they could walk into your house today, label you a terrorist, and sweep you away.

That's still concerning to me. I mean, sure, it's no longer a direct violation of human rights, but it bothers me.

Now, I'm not actually naive to think that might even happen, it's just that a lot of stupid things have happened in the past during war time, and considering the "war on terror" is a fictional never ending "war" this could be considered "war time" to them.


Now before you get all uppity about nonsense again, let me be the first to say I don't believe this bill stands a chance in the House, and even if it does, the President will veto and it'd be political Self Delete from the American people (i.e. they'd all lose their jobs come next term election) to over turn that veto.

This is a propaganda act so that Obama gets props when he vetos.

also swholli

the passing of a bunch of bullstuff acts by a government sounds like britian and the 13 colonies
that ended in a revolution

Well, Ontario isn't more than about 7 hours away...

also swholli

Oh, I wouldn't disagree on it. Though, I doubt Obama was able to persuade the entire House who have a republican majority to pass this legislation. Maybe the senate, but that's doubtful. I'd hope he has better things to do with his time than call 200 plus people and persuade them to pass a bill.


Anyway, here's my main concern.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/30/war-on-terror-doesnt-justify-retreat-on-rights/

Rand Paul, whatever your feelings on him are, does have a point about the wording of this one part of the bill. If Titanium had realized, he even said it himself. They only can do anything to you if it's "suspected" terrorism. But my point still stands, who gets to decide what suspected terrorism is?

Like, if a stupid kid ordered parts online to make a makeshift bomb. While he only intended to use the thing to blow up, like, his dad's shed or something, the government gets whiff and "technically he's a terrorist to them."

Again, I'm not a conspirator, I don't believe the government would ever use this power to just start labeling people as terrorists and sweeping them off to jail for no reason, it's just that this sort of hearkens back to the whole "communist quest" of the 50s. McCarthy labeling people as communists and they'd be taken off and put on trial and possibly jail if they were suspected as communists. It was that same mentality. We were in a cold war with Russia and McCarthy labeled them all as "spies" if they even so much as attended a communist rally. Which, by the way, was entirely unconstitutional. Didn't see the supreme court step in on that one.

I'm saying this now: as a student of history, I see these deadly signs of that all forever true "history repeating itself" all the time. It's why I got worked up. I've already apologized for getting angry, but this bill in its current state without proper clarification can be just another thing you might have to worry about if you're an enthusiast of explosives.