Team Fortress 2 Megatopic + Trade: SCREAM FORTRESS? MORE LIKE JUNGLE INFERNO!

[Bahamut]

yay first robo uncrate was the rusty reaper

[Ad Bot]

[Freeze]

Eww Jag and Atomizer, also why would the Ambassador be "essential" it's essential if you know, you can aim...

you'll never get better if you never try

default revolver is the definition of a crutch, worse players do better with it and better players do worse with it

[naturemon]

you'll never get better if you never try

It helps to start out easy and then you'll get better, baby steps.

In other words you have to learn to crawl before you can walk.

[Jairo]

default revolver is the definition of a crutch, worse players do better with it and better players do worse with it

what the forget are you talking about

[Freeze]

what the forget are you talking about

overall im pretty sure if you hit consistent headshots with the ambassador you'll do more damage (not even just over time, in general as well) than you'll do with the default revolver
this would mean if you can hit headshots consistently and are a better aimer, it's a straight upgrade

It helps to start out easy and then you'll get better, baby steps.

In other words you have to learn to crawl before you can walk.

i guess you could look at it like that but i'd personally rather just jump in the deep-end when learning a new weapon, it's not like you can't bodyshot with the amby but it's obviously better to just try and headshot

though it's completely fair if you do want to try with the default first i suppose ^.^

[Jairo]

calling the default a crutch is possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever heard about it
default weapons are meant to provide a balanced loadout for new players to adjust to the classes

if a "better player" does worse with a default weapon, they aren't exactly a "better player" than a "worse player." the point of being professional is having the ability to use any weapon with extreme precision and effectiveness.
if all they can use is the ambassador, they're just another notch on my gas canister because the amby is probably the most crutched weapon for spy (yes, even more than the enforcer and spycicle)
all the bad players flock to it because everyone else is on the bandwagon, leaving the only decent spies with the other revolvers.

the default revolver is among one of my favorites (the l'etranger takes the cake though) and is possibly the most distant you can get from a crutch weapon

[naturemon]

if a "better player" does worse with a default weapon, they aren't exactly a "better player" than a "worse player."

I agree with this completely except in the case of the Degreaser+Axtinuisher, there's not really a downside to it, the only problem is vs other pyros and if you use your shotgun not even that becomes a problem.

[Jairo]

I agree with this completely except in the case of the Degreaser+Axtinuisher, there's not really a downside to it, the only problem is vs other pyros and if you use your shotgun not even that becomes a problem.

pyro needs a nerf. like really god damn hard. valve completely removed all of his/her counterclasses a long time ago and the whole flare/degreaser/axtinguisher/airblast/reserve shooter combo really grinds my gears

[Freeze]

i don't think you understand what a crutch is
objectively, if you consistently hit headshots, the ambassador is a straight upgrade from stock, what's so hard to understand about that? i never said they'd do worse than a worse player if it came to them doing a 1v1 with stock only, i said that when two spies at the exact same skill level went against each other while one had the ambassador and the other had stock, the one with the ambassador would win because the ambassador is objectively better if you're a good player

if you have great aim, why is the ambassador worse than stock? huh? worse players do better with the crutch because they can't aim as well and better players do better with ambassador because they can. it's simple.

valve completely removed all of his/her counterclasses a long time ago

heavy? engineer?

[Jairo]

i don't think you understand what a crutch is
objectively, if you consistently hit headshots, the ambassador is a straight upgrade from stock, what's so hard to understand about that? i never said they'd do worse than a worse player if it came to them doing a 1v1 with stock only, i said that when two spies at the exact same skill level went against each other while one had the ambassador and the other had stock, the one with the ambassador would win because the ambassador is objectively better if you're a good player

if you have great aim, why is the ambassador worse than stock? huh? worse players do better with the crutch because they can't aim as well and better players do better with ambassador because they can. it's simple.

if you're going around using your revolver more than your knife, go play sniper
and if that's the case, leave the server and jump off a building

spy is about utilizing your insta-kill backstab, not running around, crouch jumping and trying to headshot people

it's people like you that make spies that much worse because you set the precedent that "hey, this is how it's meant to be played" when it's the complete polar opposite

heavy? engineer?

>circumstrafe
>backburner
>flanking
>ambush
>flaregun
>phlog
>literally any other tactic/weapon combo

if you know how to play pyro half decently (flanking/ambush) you can kill any class

[naturemon]

heavy? engineer?

Not really, you forget the way Pyro was MEANT to be played, as an ambush class, a heavy barely has time to wind up his gun before dying, so unless you're just running in to fight everyone, heavies are not a problem at all, as for engie...that's not a counterclass, a sentry is the only valid argument here but unless you're stupid enough to run in front of one and die that's not a problem either.

-snip-

Damn, beat me to it.

[Freeze]

if you're going around using your revolver more than your knife, go play sniper
and if that's the case, leave the server and jump off a building

spy is about utilizing your insta-kill backstab, not running around, crouch jumping and trying to headshot people

it's people like you that make spies that much worse because you set the precedent that "hey, this is how it's meant to be played" when it's the complete polar opposite

stop trying to get out of this, you know that has nothing to do with the argument
i never said i use my revolver more than my knife, i said the ambassador was better than stock revolver and you denied that
what you just said has nearly nothing to do with what we were talking about

>circumstrafe
>backburner
>flanking
>ambush
>flaregun
>phlog
>literally any other tactic/weapon combo

if you know how to play pyro half decently (flanking/ambush) you can kill any class

only one there'd id consider good for killing heavies is backburner and possibly plog, but then you limit yourself by not being able to airblast as much
the flanking and ambush is the same for spy, you just gotta make sure you keep your wits about you
flaregun hardly damages sentries, same with heavies sorta

pyro is quite powerful but still not to the point of op imo

[naturemon]

stop trying to get out of this, you know that has nothing to do with the argument
i never said i use my revolver more than my knife, i said the ambassador was better than stock and you denied that
what you just said has nearly nothing to do with what we were talking about
only one there'd id consider good for killing heavies is backburner and possibly plog, but then you limit yourself by not being able to airblast as much
the flanking and ambush is the same for spy, you just gotta make sure you keep your wits about you
flaregun hardly damages sentries, same with heavies sorta

pyro is quite powerful but still not to the point of op imo

The Flare Gun is EASILY able to destroy Heavies, I've done it countless times, at the very least it forces them to retreat.

As for sentries, it's not an engie. A sentry can stop literally any class stupid enough to just run in. (except for a spy obviously)

[Jairo]

i said the ambassador was better than stock and you denied that

that's because it isn't. you keep saying it performs better and everything when, in reality, it doesn't

for example: let's look at the damage charts of both weapons! ambassador
default

not only does the default outclass the amby in all categories, the only thing the amby has above it is its spread recovery. even still, what would it matter? you aren't meant to be mashing the revolver anyway, so the default is, in fact, greater than the amby

also: I'm not getting out of anything, if anyone is, it's you. you refuse to reply to my argument because it's "irrelevant" yet you still nitpick it. I'm detecting a bit of uneasiness from you

[Jairo]

since it appears freeze got some sense in his head, let's continue discussion:

does anyone actually trust backpack.tf for accurate prices?