Nations at War - Closing Time!

[SirLancelot7]

UoU finally launches their own ETOIs and a new system of counter-ETOIs.  UoU military holds on to Taiwan and more naval ships arrive to protect it. 

[Ad Bot]

[SWAT One]

ETOIs and counter ETOIs are the same thing.  Your occupation of Taiwaan is uncertain as all drones and DMs would have been intercepted before reaching the Erinamese fleet due to ETOI defense grids.  Utahn ships were hit by Pi Prime sweeps.

And you already handed over the conquered portion ante bellum to Conservatia.

The UoU will respect the claims of Conservatia, but it will keep it's established Taiwan borders.  This land has been in UoU hands for years upon years.

[SirLancelot7]

We are keeping our established borders, that includes what we gained in combat.

[SWAT One]

Let's break down what you said.

"The UOU will respect the claims of Conservatia."
At the passing of Ivek Næm II, this land became Conservatian.  This means that you had first of all chosen to respect the claim that was established before you invaded it.

"but will keep it's established Taiwan[ese] borders."
This is vague and states nothing about the current occupational state, which is controversial, since you literally ignored the defense grid, defense and attack measures, and said you claimed the land and occupied it, and upon query, ignored to explain how you had succeeded.  That doesn't fly here.

"This land has been in UoU hands for years upon years."
The recent controversial conquests have not been in UoU hands for years upon years, and in fact, if won with integrity, where in UOU's hands for one or two years only.

[grunterdb1951]

We are keeping our established borders, that includes what we gained in combat.

Let's break down what you said.

"The UOU will respect the claims of Conservatia."
At the passing of Ivek Næm II, this land became Conservatian.  This means that you had first of all chosen to respect the claim that was established before you invaded it.

"but will keep it's established Taiwan[ese] borders."
This is vague and states nothing about the current occupational state, which is controversial, since you literally ignored the defense grid, defense and attack measures, and said you claimed the land and occupied it, and upon query, ignored to explain how you had succeeded.  That doesn't fly here.

"This land has been in UoU hands for years upon years."
The recent controversial conquests have not been in UoU hands for years upon years, and in fact, if won with integrity, where in UOU's hands for one or two years only.

And even ignoring all of this, it's not like we'd let you just take Taiwan without another battle.

[Mikoyan]

Belsnia wishes to ally with conservatia

[grunterdb1951]

Belsnia wishes to ally with conservatia

Conservatia accepts, considering they are both members of PEMU, and an alliance would better strengthen both countries.

[SWAT One]

Oh, and since the land became Conservatia's and Utah kept invading it removes them from the PEMU lol.

[grunterdb1951]

My real issue with all of this is how Conservatia has a navy, seeing how it's landlocked and all.

The small East Erinaum land upon North America could easily act as a mutually shared port.


Conservatian forces continue spreading out, making their promised lands theirs whilst cleaning up and repairing, assisting civilians when and where they can.

[SWAT One]

The small East Erinaum land upon North America could easily act as a mutually shared port.
Sorry to jump this on you, but that was a strictly non-military zone.  Either way, Erinaum has quite a navy, and once Conservatia took over, it took all the assets, so this island can be used for military if you wanted it.

Conservatian forces continue spreading out, making their promised lands theirs whilst cleaning up and repairing, assisting civilians when and where they can.
Civilians help out however possible.

[Plethora]

The AC announces that it will not be allowing more refugees into its borders after these next two years, causing a sharp jump in refugee traffic.  Rumors of unmarked trucks continue among the refugees, but nothing stands to substantiate the rumors.  Documents, intelligence, technological assets, schematics, and art from within Erinaum continue to travel with the refugees into the AC.

It has been found that many small time drug dealers in the AC have relocated to Erinaum in order to take advantage of the turmoil.  The AC tightens its border security in order to stop any and all drug trafficking and catches several shipments of opium, although the AC fears that the dealers may already have sneaked tons of drugs across the border, as well as materials needed for growing more drugs.  A boatload of drugs is stashed away in a decrepit old naval vessel which is scuttled and sent to the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

After the successful election of a new Chancellor, several Plexian higher ups reveal that there are extensive tunnels underneath (formerly) Plexia's Moon Base, and that inside this tunnel network is contained Project Jaguar, something that the Plexians hid from the AC because it didn't use elections to choose leaders.  The claims are verified, and Project Leopard is relocated to a secure location for brown townysis.

The TPSP begins work on tunnels similar to the Plexian Moon Base's tunnel network to connect its lunar assets.  Plans include a "Maglev Moon Monorail" system which will connect the TPSP's Moon Bases.  The TPSP's Mars Base Program lands on Mars and construction begins.

The AC notes that it is still listed as a "Hostile Nation" by the PEMU and is displeased.  Belsnia is a blood brother and in the PEMU, no malice could be imagined.  Also it's cold to blacklist Lance for not bending to your every desire and for trying to hold onto what he fought for, essentially aggressively defending himself.

Swat, if he ignored some of your valid points, you've ignored some of his as well.  Both of you have powergamed to some extent.  I find it reasonable that Taiwan would yet be a contested territory and that neither side would have totally annihilated the other.  Figure the rest out among yourselves.
As far as what poses as valid claims, if you're willing to work things out peacefully, conquered land ought to count as it did during the Yaslovakian war.  I consider that to be a PEMU matter and do not intend to further involve myself.

[SWAT One]

Personally, I think that hundreds of miles should have been gained from the tactical advantage that YM was providing, and the fact that Decep only posted like once every two or three pages.

The whole event had holes of logic in it, really.  ETOIs have infrared (as I have stated months ago in posts somewhere), and could be able to detect the approach of a submarine close enough to be destroyed by the Releiou sinking.  I let Lancelot do that anyways.  His naval fleet was supposedly able to charge and attack ships with no aforementioned railgun usage up to that point.  I had stated that if ships got in range, they would be shot.  I gave him that tactical advantage anyways.  Then he claims to deploy drones that are still able to fly after being shot to pieces/fried by ETOIs, and claims they hit.  CIWS was a feature of my navy since before page 100.  ETOIs were protecting the navy before such drones were deployed.  SMs were shot at the ships, and would be intercepted by ETOIs.  The whole time, the ships had railguns and SMs, and would be firing at the ships anyways.

How would his navy have even gotten close?  I honestly can't let Lancelot figure it out because he just does the whole "forget logic I win anyways" spiel.

The AC notes that it is still listed as a "Hostile Nation" by the PEMU and is displeased.  Belsnia is a blood brother and in the PEMU, no malice could be imagined.  Also it's cold to blacklist Lance for not bending to your every desire and for trying to hold onto what he fought for, essentially aggressively defending himself.

1.  Fixed ACF status.

2.  He invaded land that was transferred over to Conservatia.  PEMU Article I, Clause 9 states:  "Members may invade fellow member states if they are classified as Unstable."  East Erinaum was unstable, but upon transfer to the stable State of Conservatia, Utah violated Article I, Clause 6, which states, "Members may move their militaries through each others' freely unless the host member state does not welcome it."  As grunter said,

The Conservatian forces remaining at the homeland strengthen their own borders with UoU, ready to fight if that be the case.

  They were an unwelcome force within Conservatia, and therefore were subject to termination.  Utah should have withdrawn troops, but instead continued to invade, even after claiming to respect the Conservatian borders.  The transaction was legal, however seen as "unfair," it was apart from my personal opinions.

[Plethora]

Personally, I see it as him continuing to attack rebels that were using high tech weaponry to attempt to drive him out, and plenty of his men would have died doing so.  I didn't see anything saying that Conservatian troops were being gunned down (but I may not have been paying enough attention, give a quote if I'm wrong), and while the land may officially be Conservatian, it was de facto controlled by rebels hell bent on pushing him out for whatever reason *coughpettyfeudcough*.  If he had to throw men and machines at the problem to keep what land he had, be the man of honor and let him keep some extended borders (I'm not saying all of Taiwan necessarily, but something to end this petty feud so you can both shake hands and part ways in peace).

As to drones that go kamikaze after sustaining major damage, I did say that was unrealistic.

If memory serves the major players in the PEMU all had railguns.  Safe enough to assume that ships have them too.

I must point out that just because ships get shot at when in range, it doesn't mean the whole entire fleet gets sunk without being able to do a darned lot of damage.  ETOIs are not an ace in the hole either.

I'm just playing Devil's advocate at the moment; I don't really have a horse in this race.

Swat, would you mind giving me some geographical idea of the new borders?  I know you're stuck using your phone, but just a general idea and you can scream at me until I get a map that more or less expresses the geopolitics of the former Erinaum.

Two Plexian higher ups reveal the existence of Project Sunglasses to the ACHC.

Project S is started.  Projects Himalaya and Maelstrom reach completion.  The Plexian Project Jaguar is found to be a longer worked on version of the AC's Project G, and Project Jaguar is merged with Project G.

The AC has found that the Erinamese drug problem is greater than anticipated; tons of drugs were slipped across the borders and intelligence from refugees indicates that in central Erinaum slave labor is being used to feed drug plantations.  The AC does its own crackdown on drugs in the AC to ensure that it is not a source of further turmoil in Erinaum, and the Art Team is instructed to destroy any drugs it encounters if able and is given more resources and gear, and better intelligence.

The PEMU is in violation of Article IV, Clause 1, Section C.
Also, was Article IV Clause 1 Section B fulfilled before the UOU was rendered impermanent?  Mishy... would have had to vote, or Article IV Clause 2 would have had to be fulfilled regarding Mishy... at the time of or prior to the UOU's demotion if I understand the PEMU's rules on that section.
Was there even a vote to kick and blacklist UOU or was the UOU booted without due procedure?

[SWAT One]

Utah was booted by due procedure, simply by being in violation of Article I conditions.  You are right about the blacklist error, and since East Erinaum was not existent as a sovereign nation, its vote wouldn't be counted.

Courtesy of grunter:



Though if I may attempt to edit it to contain the entire districts (not broken up), that would be okay.  For now, use that as a placeholder.

[Rockinboy2000]

Klevinstein and the KPU have had growing tensions recently as Klevinstein puts more troops near the KPU's borders


More funds have been going into science and technology recently, though some gov officials disapprove of this funding