What are your thoughts on marriage?

[Char]

How long should they be dating for?

As long as they want.

How old should they be when they marry?

Doesn't matter, but maybe a minimum age of 16~18?

Should the man propose to the woman?

Doesn't matter.

Should the man blow his life savings on a ring?

Doesn't matter.


I don't want to take the time to attempt refuting some of these arguments right now (maybe next post if I make one, I dunno) so I'm just gonna throw in what I think first.

Marriage is fine. I have no problem with the concept of two people who love each other getting together and having legal recognition for it. Of course, if you're one of those people that narrow it down to "marriage is ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN", then I would take issue.

Abstinence is pointless, honestly. Abstinence-only education is just bad. Many abstinence programs give false information about contraceptives, usually about condoms but probably for other forms too. Considering that, abstinence-only education probably leads to higher rates of accidental pregnancies (I think teens especially, but maybe not) since they won't use a condom when they've been taught that it won't do anything to prevent fertilization. Access to post-fertilization contraception is usually harder to get in religious states as well, meaning you can't really do anything about it if you get impregnated.

Religious states have a higher rate of divorce. But even aside from that, believing that divorce is wrong would be harmful if you made a mistake and marry someone that you end up not wanting to be with or maybe even abuse you. For some, that would override their belief and they would file for divorce, but some won't even then.


Okay, this one post irks me.

They definitely have fewer than Christians do.  I didn't say atheists have no morals though.

forget you in the neck, motherforgeter.



...

I'm sorry, let me try to respond in a more respectful manner.

1. They don't have acceptance for people with beliefs (bullying, trolling, arguments, etc).

That's a falsehood.
There are probably some people like that, but I think most of the time people that seem like that are really speaking out against things that are completely wrong or immoral. If not, that may just be backlash from being brought up in a way they've come to dislike/already disliked while they were being raised.
Sometimes it seems this way, but they're really just showing that an idea would contradict free speech rights or separation of church and state.

2. Science rules their views of life and the universe.

Not necessarily. An atheist is only someone who doesn't accept the claim of a god/gods.
But most people do adhere to rationalistic views, since most come to atheism through a rational assessment of religious claims.

Here is what I think atheists think are wrong with religious groups (focusing on Christianity).

Oh boy...

1. They are overbearing and chase others down to push them into their own circle.

This is probably a thing, considering many try to convert others to their own religion.

2. They are too "good", since many don't swear often, believe in abstinence, stay away from drugs, don't drink or smoke underaged, etc.

YOU FU-

*ahem*

You're really trying hard to portray atheists as these people with no morals even though you say they DON'T have no morals, just less than Christians (somehow)
But the problem is, almost nobody hates people for being good. People don't do bad things just because there are laws in place to stop it. People don't do bad things because they genuinely have no will to do so.
And what's so "good" about abstinence? There's not any point in holding off love if all participants are consenting.

3. They tend to be more close knit than other groups (mainly because their aren't as many self-proclaimed atheist or anti-religion groups) with churches, house groups, friend circles, etc.

Um, no?
While most atheist circles are much newer than churches and such, atheists see nothing wrong with having close friends. In fact, atheists are often afraid to tell their religious friends that they are an atheist for fear of the friend cutting off ties with them. This especially happens with parents.
That all depends on the person, though. More liberal theists will probably be accepting of that.

[Ad Bot]

[Lockebox]

i KNEW someone was going to light a religion match. They always do that.

Why do you people do that stop it

[Daswiruch]

How long should they be dating for?
How old should they be when they marry?
Should the man propose to the woman?
Should the man blow his life savings on a ring?

About 2 years
Between 20 - 30
Why should they care?
No. The ring shouldn't mean that much to them and if the woman says no because of the ring, she doesn't matter.

[XR-7]

-snip-

I think in the last one with the points, you understood me wrong.

The first set is what I think of atheists, and is strictly opinion.  It is not even supposed to be hate biased.

The second set is what I think atheists think about Christians, but I can never get this right since I am not an atheist.

On your mom trying to drag you to church, I think that you are fully entitled to your own beliefs.  The things that someone believes in shouldn't just be given reasons like, "My parents taught me to believe it".  At some point, you have to come to your senses and find your own thing.  My mom grew up in a Baptist community while my dad's family was predominately atheist.  After a very messy divorce and the kids taking sides, everything is all haywire now.  My dad, his dad, and his dad's second wife are all Christians now while the remainder of his family is still atheist or agnostic.  When I was 14, I started researching what I actually believed in and kind of have my own set of mostly Christian principles.

But I'm wandering off topic here, your mom shouldn't be able to force you to believe in something.  If she thinks it'll get you to heaven (or whatever, not trying to push anything), you never will if you're just going through the motions.  Just going by her potential mindset, not my own way.  She might as well just chill and go her own way.

woah I can have love at 14

Not exactly what he's saying.  He's saying that people got married much younger in early history because a) Puberty was the onset of becoming an adult, and what we now consider kids today were full adults back then, and thus had as much responsibility and privileges of everyone else in the time period and b) it's about marriage, not random love.

You're really trying hard to portray atheists as these people with no morals even though you say they DON'T have no morals, just less than Christians (somehow)
But the problem is, almost nobody hates people for being good. People don't do bad things just because there are laws in place to stop it. People don't do bad things because they genuinely have no will to do so.
And what's so "good" about abstinence? There's not any point in holding off love if all participants are consenting.

Apparently, I didn't word this right due to all the negativity.  I'm saying that Christians have more morals because they follow the set rules in the Bible.  There are personal morals and civil morals.  While the majority of people follow most civil morals (keeping the speed limit even without cops around, not murdering/assaulting/raping/[insert crimes against people here], etc), Christians tend to have a longer list of personal morals such as what is mentioned in the Bible.  Doesn't mean Christians won't be immoral though, nobody is perfect.

[Georges]

i KNEW someone was going to light a religion match. They always do that.

Why do you people do that stop it

welcome to the blockland forums.

[Maxwell.]

we have a wide range of assorted beverages

[Char]

I'm saying that Christians have more morals because they follow the set rules in the Bible.

aaaaaand this is more moral... why...?

I mean you could probably go into the Bible and find absolutely horrible rules and then have to make some sort of loophole saying why you don't need to follow it.

But you can also take this statement and use it with any other religion and it has the same validity.

[XR-7]

aaaaaand this is more moral... why...?

I mean you could probably go into the Bible and find absolutely horrible rules and then have to make some sort of loophole saying why you don't need to follow it.

But you can also take this statement and use it with any other religion and it has the same validity.

Christians tend to have a longer list of personal morals such as what is mentioned in the Bible.  Doesn't mean Christians won't be immoral though, nobody is perfect.

Bro, really.

If you want me to make some sort of visual for you to look at, I can make one.  This isn't even really that mental, just a simple matter of counting.  A personal moral isn't exactly the right thing to do, just something that you find to be right.

For example and completely on topic:

A Christian has his own personal morals and follows abstinence until marriage because it says so in the Bible.
An atheist has his own personal morals and does not follow it, but still finds that it's fine if both partners are in agreement.

Technically, neither one of them is right, but neither are wrong.  Christians just have more stuff like this that they follow from the Bible that atheists either disagree with or simply aren't even informed.  I guess if you say that atheists simply find such and such that they do not do to find moral because they don't do it, they have an equal amount if it makes you happy.

[Headcrab Zombie]

I think in the last one with the points, you understood me wrong.
The first set is what I think of atheists, and is strictly opinion.  It is not even supposed to be hate biased.
The second set is what I think atheists think about Christians, but I can never get this right since I am not an atheist.

No, I understood that, and that's how I replied to it
In the first set I was saying why I think those statements are wrong, and in the second I was explaining my view

But I'm wandering off topic here, your mom shouldn't be able to force you to believe in something.  If she thinks it'll get you to heaven (or whatever, not trying to push anything), you never will if you're just going through the motions.  Just going by her potential mindset, not my own way.  She might as well just chill and go her own way.

Actually, I was unclear it my post, it's my grandma that is at fault. My mom is stuck as the messenger being tolds things like "If Adam doesn't go to church I'm not going to feed him" and "I'f I'm going to be excluded from family events then I'm not going"
It doesn't really change the meaning of what you said so I'll just imagine you said "grandma" in place of "mom"

She might as well just chill and go her own way.

That's never going to happen. My grandma is pretty much the physical embodiment of intolerance. She will raise a fuss over the smallest, most insignificant of things. I had to live with her for a month. As an example, she can't stand spicy food. I like putting a little bit of heat on things it matches well with: red pepper flakes on pizza and pasta, cayenne hot sauce on chicken and eggs, etc. She would make the rudest reactions ever: dirty looks, groaning, snotty "Do you have to" type remarks, etc. (And it's not the type thing where people get offended when people don't like their food and add condiments to it, she didn't give a single forget if it was any other condiment.) She is like this with anything she does not agree with, no matter how small. You can imagine her reaction if it's something like atheism or homoloveuality

I'm saying that Christians have more morals because they follow the set rules in the Bible.

Look into Kohlberg's stages of moral development. These outline the stages of moral reasoning a child goes through as they grow up.
Morality from the Bible comes from "If I don't do this, God will send me to hell." This type of thinking is the "Obedience and Punishment" phase. It is the very first stage and is the moral reasoning of a 2-5 year old.
As a link I previously pasted shows, atheists have lower rates of crime and other behaviors that could be deemed as "immoral" They do it because it is the best thing for society, which is at least stage 4

Having different personal morals does not make either group "better"
Unless by saying "they have more morals" you literally mean "more rules to follow"
But thats not what anyone interprets it is, they interpret it meaning "are more moral behaving"

[Char]

Bro, really.

at least you'll finally enlighten me on what you mean by having more morals because it clearly has nothing to do with the conventional use

If you want me to make some sort of visual for you to look at, I can make one.  This isn't even really that mental, just a simple matter of counting.  A personal moral isn't exactly the right thing to do, just something that you find to be right.

Okay, I guess that makes sense. I don't know how that makes certain people have more morals than others, but go on.

For example and completely on topic:

A Christian has his own personal morals and follows abstinence until marriage because it says so in the Bible.
An atheist has his own personal morals and does not follow it, but still finds that it's fine if both partners are in agreement.

...An atheist does follow what he thinks is right. What do you mean he doesn't follow his personal morals? It was you who said that personal morals are

isn't exactly the right thing to do, just something that you find to be right.

Unless you mean that something goes against his usual personal morals but he's fine with it if both partners consent, but that would just make it another personal moral.

Technically, neither one of them is right, but neither are wrong.  Christians just have more stuff like this that they follow from the Bible that atheists either disagree with or simply aren't even informed.

So the person doesn't have personal morals regarding a situation until they become aware of such a situation?
I suppose that makes sense, but not really either. And if atheists disagree with it, that doesn't mean they have less personal morals, that just makes that one personal moral the opposite of the others.

I guess if you say that atheists simply find such and such that they do not do to find moral because they don't do it, they have an equal amount if it makes you happy.

Okay, so are you just backtracking on your original position?

[XR-7]

...An atheist does follow what he thinks is right. What do you mean he doesn't follow his personal morals? It was you who said that personal morals are

Meh.  That was bad wording.  I'm just saying that both members of both groups have different morals.  It's just that the Christian finds it moral to wait until marriage, while the atheist does not (or at least doesn't care either way).

Unless you mean that something goes against his usual personal morals but he's fine with it if both partners consent, but that would just make it another personal moral.

It's just out of the box, not necessarily on topic.  Just backing out and viewing everything related to society as a whole.

Okay, so are you just backtracking on your original position?

Just giving another way to look at it.

Look into Kohlberg's stages of moral development. These outline the stages of moral reasoning a child goes through as they grow up.
Morality from the Bible comes from "If I don't do this, God will send me to hell." This type of thinking is the "Obedience and Punishment" phase. It is the very first stage and is the moral reasoning of a 2-5 year old.
As a link I previously pasted shows, atheists have lower rates of crime and other behaviors that could be deemed as "immoral" They do it because it is the best thing for society, which is at least stage 4

I think that stage 1 way of thinking would definitely fit the stereotypical Christian.  It does not have any relevance to the Bible either, which yes, doesn't make sense when you see that many Christians think that way.  The Bible actually says that you have to formally give your life to God at a ceremony (usually baptism) and accept Him in order to make it to heaven.  It doesn't matter how good you are if you reject Him in the first place.  On the contrary, if you have already accepted God, you can be the most horrible person alive and still make it to heaven, but heck knows what happens when you die.

Having different personal morals does not make either group "better"

Of course not.

Unless by saying "they have more morals" you literally mean "more rules to follow"
But thats not what anyone interprets it is, they interpret it meaning "are more moral behaving"

This is basically what I was trying to get at all along.

[Mr.Noßody]

Marriage is an unneeded and outdated practice.
To be religiously bound to anybody is ludicrous.

Edit: To those who don't know what a moral is, it's a viewpoint and self set guideline to live by. Everyone has them, nobody is without them and all are valid no matter now mundane they are. Being Christian doesn't make you "more moral", it's just a set of predetermined morals. Because having choices made for you is the intelligent way out isn't it.

[Mega-Bear]

Meh.  That was bad wording.  I'm just saying that both members of both groups have different morals.  It's just that the Christian finds it moral to wait until marriage, while the atheist does not (or at least doesn't care either way).

Not really a fair generalization, but then again, no generalizations are. I don't know any atheists committed to waiting until marriage, but I know plenty of Christians who are having love before they're married.

EDIT:

It doesn't matter how good you are if you reject Him in the first place.  On the contrary, if you have already accepted God, you can be the most horrible person alive and still make it to heaven

I don't see how this is moral at all...

[Headcrab Zombie]

if you have already accepted God, you can be the most horrible person alive and still make it to heaven

That's even more immoral

Marriage is an unneeded and outdated practice.
To be religiously bound to anybody is ludicrous.

Outdated is one thing
But as long as the married couples are given benefits over unmarried couples, getting married isn't unneeded

[Frankie²]

Marriage is the perfect way for 1 person to improve their life quickly.
However it's a huge burden on the other person.

Notice how in any dating couple. The most excitable one when it comes to talks of marriage always seems to be the one who has the most to gain.


True happiness can only come from married people who could have gone on fine single for the rest of their lives. Money wise.
That marriage improves both lives.

you couldve saved yourself a lot of trouble and said "im single"