Author Topic: Video shows man with hands up shot by New Jersey police  (Read 3597 times)

When the guy has a gun
What about when a guy has their hands up? I am pretty sure authorization of deadly force doesnt apply to someone who isn't a current threat


Since when did we, as a society, start believing that moving and exiting a vehicle (unarmed) against a police officer's orders is ground for getting shot to death? It sure doesn't jive with the word of law:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force#United_States_law



I never said/meant it was grounds to be shot to death

its just simply why did he get out of the car when the cop said to not move


its just simply why did he get out of the car when the cop said to not move
It was probably some heat of the moment thing he did out of fear.

When the guy has a gun

thats when it "jives" with the word of law
It was in his glove compartment. If he was 'grabbing for his gun', why would he be exiting his vehicle? Seems like a bad way to shoot someone.

Lots of people own guns, and lots of people commit crimes. If you get caught running a red light and an officer finds a gun in your car, that doesn't give him license to kill you.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 09:20:42 AM by SeventhSandwich »

So I assume black people get some kind of political immunity just because they're black?

Tumblr is trash I'll tell you hwat

It was in his glove compartment. If he was 'grabbing for his gun', why would he be exiting his vehicle? Seems like a bad way to shoot someone.
plus the gun was already removed by the cop

plus the gun was already removed by the cop
Exactly. Even if you assume that he was planning to run and escape arrest, the officer is still not justified in shooting him.

Unless an officer specifically declares you are under arrest and announces the charges you are supposed to be allowed to not have to listen to them. When they declare you are under arrest and you try to run that is technically resisting, however still not grounds for getting shot. Regarudless people have reinterperted the rule to "Simon says" where simon is the officer and if you loose you get shot.


What does that have to do with anything?
Because you bash cops whenever this comes up.
Go rebel somewhere else.

Here in New Jersey, you are not allowed to transport a gun in your glovebox.

"The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle (glovebox)."
state.nj.gov

So we can add another item to the list of dumbassery on the part of guy who got shot.
-new jersey resident

Don't you loving move count: About 50+

Here is the whole video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_jFDaXKUbY

Here is where things heat up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=E_jFDaXKUbY&x-yt-ts=1421782837&x-yt-cl=84359240#t=96

notice how the officer kept telling the passenger to stop moving around and keep his hands up and visable.

This was as the passenger exited the vehicle


This was as he starting falling to the ground one second later after getting shot.


His hands weren't even up when he got out, and by the time he was falling to the ground it looked like he was either reaching for his heart or to make a hands up motion.

Just because they found one weapon in the car, doesn't mean that was the only one. The passenger was moving around a lot, he could have been fumbling for another weapon such as a knife or another gun under or in between the seat, he could have unbuckling his seat belt or doing both. I doubt the officers knew who the passenger was, until he was identified. However fumbling around like that and flinging the door open implies two things
1): I'm going to kill you
2): I'm going to run away

not
1):I'm going to give you a great big hug
2):I'm going to run home and bake you all a batch of cookies

Unless an officer specifically declares you are under arrest and announces the charges you are supposed to be allowed to not have to listen to them. When they declare you are under arrest and you try to run that is technically resisting, however still not grounds for getting shot. Regarudless people have reinterperted the rule to "Simon says" where simon is the officer and if you loose you get shot.
There is your average every day encounter where you are free to leave any time you want, and there is a detention where you are not free to leave until stated, and there is an arrest. A dention is like an arrest, but it can also lead to an arrest.

For example a driver a is serving around and a cop pulls him over for suspected drunk driving, that is a dention. He then sees opened beer cans all around the car, the drive then fails the sobriety test, so the officers arrests him for driving under the influence.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 12:08:20 PM by Harm94 »

Exactly. Even if you assume that he was planning to run and escape arrest, the officer is still not justified in shooting him.

The officer told him multiple times not to exit the car. His defiance of the police officer's direct order in this situation would be interpreted by most police officers as an offensive move, possibly to gain access to a gun on his person that wasn't accessible in a sitting position. The man was known by the police officer as someone who has previously been convicted of shooting at police officers.

The man was sufficiently warned not to move and the request wasn't ludicrous. Obviously cops can't just walk up to you on the road and tell you to do fifteen things or they'll shoot you, but if a cop pulls a gun from your possession, recognizes you as someone who shoots at cops, then you refuse to follow their orders to put your hands up or stay put, and then you move from your current sitting position to a standing position while actively ignoring yelling commands to not do that, you've put yourself in a situation where you're going to be shot.

Exactly. Even if you assume that he was planning to run and escape arrest, the officer is still not justified in shooting him.

Keep in mind that the officer had a split second decision. Not saying he made the best choice, but there's really not a clear indication on what should've been done as it was happening. As far as if it was justified or not, that's up to the court of law to decide :v


What does that have to do with anything?

Something to do with the fact that nobody should take you seriously when it comes to the subject of law enforcement