ABS FIESTA REDUX

[xxxxkill]

Reactive armor isn't going to do stuff when your enemies can be operating anything from pulse lasers, to ion cannons, to literal heat rays. A point defense system also isn't going to do stuff against any form of energy weapon. Thinking about it logically, a system which can brute its way into resisting kinetics from sheer armor density and provide intense heat dispersion because ceramics would make just as much, if not more sense than slapping some electric plates or whatever you're proposing in a situation where those conductive plates might just slough off and melt from PPCs, pulse lasers, plasma flamethrowers, whatever.

[Ad Bot]

[Juncoph]

what

conductive plates would disperse heat better than non-conductive plates

that is literally what they're doing as they conduct heat

anyway, i know what you need:

plexiglass-reinforced mirrors

..or shiny steel armor


you know besides the argument this is actually really getting my head going on what would be good for defending against a thermal attack

like, realistically speaking, if you look at all the crazy stuff they tried in ww2

who knows what would be tried in a theoretical ww3, fought with energy weapons?

[Operator¹]

Plexiglass will probably be destroyed by explosives pretty easily though.

[Juncoph]

Plexiglass will probably be destroyed by explosives pretty easily though.

i was mostly kidding

plus you could have that above a specialized matrix that doesn't conduct heat well

when the laser melts a small hole through the matrix armor, then it would hit the mirrors

now that i think about it this idea qualifies as a composite

[Operator¹]

The best defense against energy weapons is not getting hit at all.

this would probably be concealment or speed too

[Juncoph]

The best defense against energy weapons is not getting hit at all.

this would probably be concealment or speed too

hellcat, PL-01
and also every modern SPG used as indirect fire artillery ever


the problem is that this is a supertank and supertanks arent meant for hiding like tank destroyers, light tanks and mobile artillery


hmmm


you could have a secondary engine dedicated to running a coolant system throughout the armor, and a similar system could be used for aircraft armor but instead of the engine having to handle causing the thermic reaction you could just have retractable fins

i guess powered defenses would be more helios though

[xxxxkill]

what

conductive plates would disperse heat better than non-conductive plates

that is literally what they're doing as they conduct heat

Yeah also they tend to have pretty low specific heats, which isn't great for weathering energy attacks.

you know besides the argument this is actually really getting my head going on what would be good for defending against a thermal attack

like, realistically speaking, if you look at all the crazy stuff they tried in ww2

who knows what would be tried in a theoretical ww3, fought with energy weapons?

Probably ferro-ceramic materials that are good at absorbing and dispersing heat? Like Qwepir said?

the problem is that this is a supertank and supertanks arent meant for hiding like tank destroyers, light tanks and mobile artillery

It's also a handicapped idea, speaking from a military standpoint, as whoever designed the Ratte would tell you if they weren't dead. So are air navies. Clearly this isn't a logical military simulation with total realism, to the infuriation of folks like Harm.

[Juncoph]

there's also the issue of a good conductor cooking whatever's behind the armor

ive come up with 3 solutions for this

1, dedicated coolant system, which i've already suggested -- this would work with a conductive ferroceramatrix

2, vacuum insulation (however this would be vulnerable to being filled with air after a full entry) (this is also how thermos cups work)

3, make it autonomous and have all of the hardware extremely heat resistant - although conventional arms wouldn't really be fixable and energy weapons would have reduced fire rates

edit: came up with an even better solution

make the tank so hilariously loving heavy that standard radiation into the surrounding air would defeat any chance of the armor getting hot enough to damage internals

and in the mean time have a stuff ton of small-caliber railguns attacking the position of what's doing the most damage to you

huh thats another thing ive noticed missing

a lot of standard MGs and stuff are used here but no hypersonic MGs like a rotary railgun

what's up with that

[xxxxkill]

there's also the issue of a good conductor cooking whatever's behind the armor

ive come up with 3 solutions for this

1, dedicated coolant system, which i've already suggested -- this would work with a conductive ferroceramatrix
Probably.
2, vacuum insulation (however this would be vulnerable to being filled with air after a full entry) (this is also how thermos cups work)
Have you ever seen what happens when a vacuum is suddenly exposed to air. That's not a good idea.
3, make it autonomous and have all of the hardware extremely heat resistant - although conventional arms wouldn't really be fixable and energy weapons would have reduced fire rates
Drones aren't the Zit gimmick, that's more of a Kintharian thing. And Kinths don't use supertanks.
edit: came up with an even better solution

make the tank so hilariously loving heavy that standard radiation into the surrounding air would defeat any chance of the armor getting hot enough to damage internals

and in the mean time have a stuff ton of small-caliber railguns attacking the position of what's doing the most damage to you

huh thats another thing ive noticed missing

a lot of standard MGs and stuff are used here but no hypersonic MGs like a rotary railgun

what's up with that
Because railguns, and kinetic weapons in general, in this context are heavy as hell, and a rotary railgun would require both a massive power-plant and a healthy stockpile of ammunition in order to fire, the latter of which could be stripped away for a lighter, more effective energy weapon. Not actually my design choice, I'd've balanced kinetics vs. energies a bit better but Qwepir's got an energy weapon boner so.

[Juncoph]

alternatively we could just do nuke ammo




/S

[Mr. Hurricane]

Here's what I'm thinking, on top of Qweipr's specifications,

-ECM System with dedicated Vehicle engineer, who also helps manage the engines. The ECM system can jam infantry based weapons, but due to power restrictions cannot jam anything more than that. Jams Infrared signals and radar, usually by blinding the guidance systems.
-Active Protection system, which works in a manner similar to a shotgun. Always disabled due to the danger to nearby infantry. Will fire on top-attack ordnace regardless. Not very effective.
-Two-internal combustion engines of some form, one per track
-Composite armor with sloped/peaked front; Reflective coat, 100mm RHA, Rubber Disturber, Graphite coated Ceramic Disruptor, Tungsten weave reinforcement, then steel structure and spall liner. This part is technobabble, so don't worry about having to simulate it.
--First layer under the paint is literally a reflective coating. Effective, but will burn off after sustained heat.
--All mounted in modular armor blocks akin to that of the Merkava, which is the main real-world inspiration.
-Engine/Transmission in the front, again derived from the Merkava. This doesn't increase the survivability of the tank but helps protect the crew.

-Rear-mount turret, twin 152mm cannons, derived from EndWar's Russian T100's
-Autoloader for each, cannons fed by drums, which are fed by the autoloader. Ammunition is fired electronically, eliminating the hazardous strike-primers.
-Wet Stowage, even the ammo drums.
-Blowout panels so that when the ammo does go up it doesn't kill everybody inside. That's not to say that anybody outside will be okay.

-Caged armor mounts, and chain-weave over the roadwheels. To satisfy Qweipr's energy boner, these tanks will mount Electric reactive armor, which is basically two conductive plates with an inert insulator between. The inner layer is charged, this creates a capacitor. When something strikes the armor, such as a heat warhead's copper jet, or a kinetic penetrator, then the circuit is closed and a metric forgetload of electricity runs through the copper jet or KE penetrator and plasmafies, or liquifies it respectively. This disruption leads to the loss in effectiveness of the weapon. Electric armor is only really something that can be used in the open field, because using it when infantry are around is loving dangerous. When the power goes out then the insulating rubber just acts like NERA/NxRA, still can somewhat disturb projectiles but it less effective at doing so.
 
-Also the track and road wheels will have a special groove that will allow the tank to climb on to railroad tracks and traverse railroad bridges. This helps mobility some. The idea is derived from a Interwar Russian tank.

[xxxxkill]

Here's what I'm thinking, on top of Qweipr's specifications,

-ECM System with dedicated Vehicle engineer, who also helps manage the engines. The ECM system can jam infantry based weapons, but due to power restrictions cannot jam anything more than that. Jams Infrared signals and radar, usually by blinding the guidance systems.
DENIED: Absolutely not.

-Active Protection system, which works in a manner similar to a shotgun. Always disabled due to the danger to nearby infantry. Will fire on top-attack ordnace regardless. Not very effective.
ACCEPTED: A point-defense system is probably on this thing, yeah.

-Two-internal combustion engines of some form, one per track
>Internal combustion
>In 4915
This isn't Porlaq. Qwepir and I are still thinking about this one, but it's not some diesel-guzzling grumble engine.

-Composite armor with sloped/peaked front; Reflective coat, 100mm RHA, Rubber Disturber, Graphite coated Ceramic Disruptor, Tungsten weave reinforcement, then steel structure and spall liner. This part is technobabble, so don't worry about having to simulate it.
CHANGED: Who the forget uses RHA any more? This thing's already using something akin to Chobham. The rest of this is under discussion, but the RHA is right out.

--First layer under the paint is literally a reflective coating. Effective, but will burn off after sustained heat.
We'll come back to this one at some point.

--All mounted in modular armor blocks akin to that of the Merkava, which is the main real-world inspiration.
ACCEPTED: Being able to replace individual armor blocks makes sense.

-Engine/Transmission in the front, again derived from the Merkava. This doesn't increase the survivability of the tank but helps protect the crew.
ACCEPTED: Sure, why not.

-Rear-mount turret, twin 152mm cannons, derived from EndWar's Russian T100's
ACCEPTED: A rear-mounted turret is more or less what was in mind when Qwepir was looking at this thing, so that's about accurate.

-Autoloader for each, cannons fed by drums, which are fed by the autoloader. Ammunition is fired electronically, eliminating the hazardous strike-primers.
HALF/HALF: The ammo isn't left in a drum, but it's obviously got an autoloader. Electronic-ignition under discussion, probably not important enough to discuss.

-Wet Storage, even the ammo drums.
CHANGED: Instead of wet storage, there's a mini-COMRO on-board that keeps all of the materials separated and creates the ammunition as needed.

-Blowout panels so that when the ammo does go up it doesn't kill everybody inside. That's not to say that anybody outside will be okay.
DENIED: Made redundant by mini-COMRO system.

-Caged armor mounts, and chain-weave over the roadwheels. To satisfy Qweipr's energy boner, these tanks will mount Electric reactive armor, which is basically two conductive plates with an inert insulator between. The inner layer is charged, this creates a capacitor. When something strikes the armor, such as a heat warhead's copper jet, or a kinetic penetrator, then the circuit is closed and a metric forgetload of electricity runs through the copper jet or KE penetrator and plasmafies, or liquifies it respectively. This disruption leads to the loss in effectiveness of the weapon. Electric armor is only really something that can be used in the open field, because using it when infantry are around is loving dangerous. When the power goes out then the insulating rubber just acts like NERA/NxRA, still can somewhat disturb projectiles but it less effective at doing so.
This one's also under discussion but we're leaning towards getting rid of it.
 
-Also the track and road wheels will have a special groove that will allow the tank to climb on to railroad tracks and traverse railroad bridges. This helps mobility some. The idea is derived from a Interwar Russian tank.
DENIED: This tank is literally too wide to fit on railroads. This isn't a light scouting tank.

Something to keep in mind is that this thing, at the very least, is 65 tonnes with just the hull and turret, with no armament or anything special. You include the armament and it shoots up massively. 100 tonnes is the standard maximum carry capacity.

[3:35:11 PM] Qwepir: automatic railguns are for jerks

[Mr. Hurricane]

Missile Guidance Scrambling = ECM of sorts. You'll have your sciencemagic scrambler though. Basically an infrared/optical beam that completely blinds the missiles. The power is only enough to blind infantry weapons though.

I wouldn't call it point defense, because to me that seems a bit too advance for the Zentragoths. I don't run the RP though, but I would think if anything the Kintharians would have a small point defense or Quick Kill AD system on there.

Seriously, Quick Kill is loving cool. It uses a small vertically launched missile to intercept incoming rockets.

Up the two engines to two gas turbines. Either way I'd still advocate an onboard engineer to manage the turbines or cold fusion reactor or whatever.

RHA is replaced by a simple, thin, literally insignificant protective metalic cover. I personally still advocate RHA because at the angle it would be at you'd get 200 to 300mm of effective armor, plus it detonates HEAT rounds which then suffer from the changing densities and geometerys between the RHA and rubber liner.

Mini-COMRO/Autoloader will work by materializing a shell on to a rail and then ramming it in. Perhaps have a drum of pre-materialized waiting ammunition, no more than five or ten rounds though. Not too significant. Either way. This is airplane rp not tank rp.

Literal bins of inert materials that are lifted into the back of the turret via a crane or some stuff.

The bit about caged armor and reactive armor is really just aesthetic. How cool would it be to see one of these things take a hit and spark up like a transformer being hit by a tornado.

[Gojira]

back to shopping please
I head to one of the not-Commnet service providers' storefronts to find a new phone.

[Gojira]

guys?