Valve at GDC 2015

[Foxscotch]

they're already porting dota 2 as far as i know

well, there's a big difference between the funds available to Valve and the guy who made garry's mod

[Ad Bot]

[ZSNO]

well, there's a big difference between the funds available to Valve and the guy who made garry's mod

especially since Garry already customized the crap out of the Source version he's using

[Rainzx¹]

that's not really how it works
the engine's gonna be the part that requires the most. it has to render everything, figure out how to light the scene, do the... physics, and everything like that
relative to all that, the gameplay doesn't take much to run

however, Unreal is a great engine, and it does everything well. so it's not that engine's fault tristan can't run Unreal Engine games

But that is how it works, on most engines the reason a game is running slow is due to poor optimization on the developers part.
The engine is not in charge of what it is told to process, its always the developer's job to use what runs best on the engine they use.

[Foxscotch]

But that is how it works, on most engines the reason a game is running slow is due to poor optimization on the developers part.
The engine is not in charge of what it is told to process, its always the developer's job to use what runs best on the engine they use.

uhh, no...
it's not that the engine is or isn't in charge of "what it is told to process", it just does most of the heavy lifting in the first place. gameplay logic generally consists of pretty simple things. stuff like keeping track of variables and adding to them when something happens, like with scores, or knowing what needs to be done when a weapon is used
I'm simplifying it a lot, but in the end, it would take a lot of complexity for that stuff to come close to what it takes to handle all of the things the engine does
give me an example of a game that runs on a great engine but still winds up slow because of the gameplay stuff

[ZSNO]

But that is how it works, on most engines the reason a game is running slow is due to poor optimization on the developers part.
The engine is not in charge of what it is told to process, its always the developer's job to use what runs best on the engine they use.

I'm confused on why you think this is true

[Ipquarx]

But that is how it works, on most engines the reason a game is running slow is due to poor optimization on the developers part.
The engine is not in charge of what it is told to process, its always the developer's job to use what runs best on the engine they use.

What do you think handles all the graphics? The correct answer is the engine. The only thing it doesn't control is how the graphics are manipulated, which is controlled by the developers. Lighting, models, etc. The engine handles actually rendering all that. While yes, there is a lot of optimization that can be done on the developers part, like using bumpmapping and optimizing shader code, choosing what to and not to render, etc, if the engine itself is poorly optimized, the game aint gonna run well, no matter how well the devs optimize it.

[Blockzillahead]

But that is how it works, on most engines the reason a game is running slow is due to poor optimization on the developers part.
The engine is not in charge of what it is told to process, its always the developer's job to use what runs best on the engine they use.

not when the layout on making a game in unity is so easy and basic. theres literally nothing to forget up in terms of performance if you have the slightest clue of what youre doing. they tried to make it as fool proof as possible so its easy to use but in the process they bloated it up and its being held on tight ropes. its the engine and not the devs, although they can create workarounds but its unnecessary because modifying a game engine is painful if they even can.

[Masterlegodude]

Kinda wondering what's going to happen to Gmod once it's released...
... Watch it not change at all...

I think people would port Half Life 3 content to Gmod or try to make their own Gmod because Garry most likely does not want to put in the time and effort into porting everything over

[Decepticon]

I think people would port Half Life 3 content to Gmod or try to make their own Gmod because Garry most likely does not want to put in the time and effort into porting everything over

i'd also imagine there would be some problems since the major source games (like counter strike: source, which almost every single server uses for content) that gives you the content would be messed up in some way

or just look odd

[ZombiLoin]

somehow i think somebody would just make a gmod-esque game thing for all three of the major game engines. source 2 and unreal engine will probably have some kind of brown townogue, not too sure about unity.

however it would probably be better if like- they just made the editors multiplayer. it's been done before on a limited scale with cube and sauerbraten, so it may work for unreal/unity.

[Rainzx¹]

You already tried to argue with me about optimization in a different thread and you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about

That is when a developer cuts back to get better performance out on the game.
Still the developers fault if they don't cut back.

The point of optimization is to reduce the amount of work the engine has to do.
By doing things like compressing textures, reducing polygons in a model, using level of detail, and more.
Here's some documentation on the subject
http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/OptimizingGraphicsPerformance.html
http://www.nodraw.net/2009/12/optimization-in-source-a-practical-demonstration/
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Optimization

[Ipquarx]

Still the developers fault if they don't cut back.

What I said was, even if they do, if the engine itself is stuff, the game won't run well, no matter how much they "cut back." I'm not saying that it's always the engine's fault, but I'm saying it's definitely possible for the engine to simply be unable to run a game well.

[Masterlegodude]

i'd also imagine there would be some problems since the major source games (like counter strike: source, which almost every single server uses for content) that gives you the content would be messed up in some way

or just look odd

Or maybe Valve will port those games to Source 2 at some point like they ported Half Life to Source and give it out for free for people who already own the original game, or not, as is the case with Half Life currently

Unless they go the way they did with soundtracks and actually give them out for free if you own the game

[ZSNO]

You already tried to argue with me about optimization in a different thread and you admitted that you have no idea what you are talking about

I guess you can't read then.
Sad day
I said that YOU have no idea what you're talking about kid, stop acting like you're some holy god on game development and engine development when you've done nothing.

As I said before, it's hard to argue with you because you provide absolutely no evidence for anything you say. Linking to articles about optimization doesn't help anyone as those are articles SPECIFICALLY FOR DEVELOPERS. Isn't it obvious?
We're saying not all engines are created equal and you don't provide anything to back up your claims. Seriously try harder

[Rainzx¹]

I guess you can't read then.
Sad day
I said that YOU have no idea what you're talking about kid, stop acting like you're some holy god on game development and engine development when you've done nothing.

I'll admit that I don't know that much about full game development.

You clearly are saying you don't know anything about game developement in this quote.
Quit trying to denounce optimization, with no knowledge on the subject to back it up.

As I said before, it's hard to argue with you because you provide absolutely no evidence for anything you say.

I just provided three links are you sure your not the one who cant read?
You have not provided any evidence on your side of the argument either.

Linking to articles about optimization doesn't help anyone as those are articles SPECIFICALLY FOR DEVELOPERS. Isn't it obvious?
We're saying not all engines are created equal and you don't provide anything to back up your claims. Seriously try harder

What are you trying to say here, that optimization doesn't work the way I say it does because you can't understand whats being said in the links?
It's not that hard to understand the basic idea of optimization through the articles I posted.

I'm not saying the engines are all equal either, In the original post that started the conversation he is clearly talking about the games running slowly not the engines, the games can run perfectly fine as long as you know its limitations and work with them.