Pizzaria in my town raises $842k over gays rights debacle, reopens to full house

[Amade]

only in saudi arabia! but apparently some restaurant in a small town in indiana is a much more pressing issue

If you think trans* people aren't regularly killed for being trans* you're definitely not up to date on the matter. I'm not certain on whether it's common for gays to be killed in hate crimes, but I know they're definitely the targets of violence (Dumb anecdote: I pretended to be gay for a few minutes in middle school to piss a guy off, and he attacked me for it). It definitely happens.

the indiana law doesn't permit or endorse discrimination.

LOL. I'm sure the Defense of Marriage Act didn't permit or endorse discrimination in your eyes, either.

[Ad Bot]

[The Resonte!]

IT IS ONLY FOR A HYPOTHETICAL GAY WEDDING CEREMONY. HOW DO PEOPLE NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND THIS AT THIS POINT?

i never said it was a real life gay wedding

[Wizzeh]

the indiana law doesn't permit or endorse discrimination.

This is a mind-bogglingly stupid thing to say and if you'd read the rest of the thread you'd know why.

it's only usable as a legal defence if it the defendent can prove that the government's actions "substantially burden" the defendant's religious values. you can't just make up some insane religion in 30 seconds and say that it calls for murdering gay people; it needs to be demonstrated that you follow an actual religion and that the government's ordinances are infringing unnecessarily on your rights

My point is that this is a stupid thing to legislate on the basis of. There's nothing that makes my insane religion any better or worse than your insane religion. If I genuinely believe that God wants high premiums for those with pre-existing conditions then that's no different from your brain-rotting belief that being gay is wrong.

IT IS ONLY FOR A HYPOTHETICAL GAY WEDDING CEREMONY. HOW DO PEOPLE NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND THIS AT THIS POINT?

I think it's pretty obvious no gay couple is going to be asking these people to cater for them in the near future.

[SeventhSandwich]

the indiana law doesn't permit or endorse discrimination.

Discrimination is treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.

That's literally exactly what it does!

it's only usable as a legal defence if it the defendent can prove that the government's actions "substantially burden" the defendant's religious values.

There's no regulatory body to guarantee that's what's going to happen though. What religious beliefs are we even talking about here? Christianity? Islam? What if I'm a bus driver and a guy on a wheelchair shows up, and I drive away because I just converted to a new religion that ignores the existence of the disabled? What clause in that law prevents me from doing this?

you can't just make up some insane religion in 30 seconds and say that it calls for murdering gay people;

Says who?

it needs to be demonstrated that you follow an actual religion

What's an 'actual religion'? Is Christianity more valid than, say, Scientology or Pastafarianism? If we're going to be discriminating based on specific religions, you are now violating the first amendment.

[Amade]

If we're going to be discriminating based on specific religions, you are now violating the first amendment.

This isn't going to convince him. He doesn't care about others' rights, which is why he's defending this pizzeria.

[Kearn]

Prohibits a governmental entity from substantially burdening a person's exercise of religion, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, unless the governmental entity can demonstrate that the burden: (1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and (2) is the least restrictive means of furthering the compelling governmental interest. Provides a procedure for remedying a violation. Specifies that the religious freedom law applies to the implementation or application of a law regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity or official is a party to a proceeding implementing or applying the law.

yeah look at all that text about how discrimination is permissible now. i'm sure forcing private family-owned restaurants to serve pizza at a gay wedding reception is a compelling government interest

There's no regulatory body to guarantee that's what's going to happen though. What religious beliefs are we even talking about here? Christianity? Islam? What if I'm a bus driver and a guy on a wheelchair shows up, and I drive away because I just converted to a new religion that ignores the existence of the disabled? What clause in that law prevents me from doing this?

any judge with an IQ above 4 is going to know whether you're actually dealing with a violation of your conscience or just making up a legal defence. i think it's fairly obvious the first amendment wasn't created to allow people to make up a religion in half a second and use that as a legal defence for everything

What's an 'actual religion'?

one that exists for more than 3 seconds outside of your head when you dont need it as a legal defence

[Amade]

one that exists for more than 3 seconds outside of your head when you dont need it as a legal defence

You don't get to decide which religions are and are not legitimate. Someone else could just as easily say that Christianity doesn't count as a legitimate religion.

There's no regulatory body to guarantee that's what's going to happen though. What religious beliefs are we even talking about here? Christianity? Islam? What if I'm a bus driver and a guy on a wheelchair shows up, and I drive away because I just converted to a new religion that ignores the existence of the disabled? What clause in that law prevents me from doing this?

That's allowed under this law which is exactly why it needs to be struck down ASAP.

[Wizzeh]

yeah look at all that text about how discrimination is permissible now. i'm sure forcing private family-owned restaurants to serve pizza at a gay wedding reception is a compelling government interest

You don't seem to understand the argument at all. None of us are saying that under the new law this behavior isn't allowed. We're saying it shouldn't be allowed under the law.

any judge with an IQ above 4 is going to know whether you're actually dealing with a violation of your conscience or just making up a legal defence. i think it's fairly obvious the first amendment wasn't created to allow people to make up a religion in half a second and use that as a legal defence for everything

one that exists for more than 3 seconds outside of your head when you dont need it as a legal defence

I think in most cases it should be obvious but once again you've missed the point of the argument, which is that nothing about your particular mode of thought makes it distinct from any other possible ridiculous idea. Therefore, the implicit argument goes, it's absurd for the government to allow arbitrary and absurd forms of discrimination so long as they're backed up by religious conviction.

[Bisjac]

you will all feel really dumb if the pizza place owner is pro gay rights and is only trolling to gain attention toward the law.

[Amade]

Therefore, the implicit argument goes, it's absurd for the government to allow arbitrary and absurd forms of discrimination so long as they're backed up by religious conviction.

Exactly. Your religious freedom ends where it begins to infringe upon the rights of others.

you will all feel really dumb if the pizza place owner is pro gay rights and is only trolling to gain attention toward the law.

I don't see how that would make anyone here feel dumb. If that's what he's doing, good for him, because that law is certainly getting a LOT of attention now and I doubt it will stay on the books much longer.

[Bisjac]

If we're going to be discriminating based on specific religions, you are now violating the first amendment.

there is a list of tax exempt religions. any others are not "religions" in this nation.

[Wizzeh]

there is a list of tax exempt religions. any others are not "religions" in this nation.

I don't think anyone is saying that the issue is that it isn't possible to distinguish Islam from Jedi, but rather that it's a distinction based on how many people seem to identify with a certain name, and a silly grounds on which to allow discrimination.

[Kearn]

I doubt it will stay on the books much longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Acts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act

i dunno. the other 20 seem to be doing fine

[Bisjac]

I don't think anyone is saying that the issue is that it isn't possible to distinguish Islam from Jedi, but rather that it's a distinction based on how many people seem to identify with a certain name, and a silly grounds on which to allow discrimination.

i was referring to how the government ignores the first amendment in favor of "business" religions.

[Wizzeh]

i was referring to how the government ignores the first amendment in favor of "business" religions.

Ah, right. My bad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Acts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act

i dunno. the other 20 seem to be doing fine

Americans are so silly.