Famous male athlete Bruce Jenner transforms into a women

[Frequency]

It's a shame this thread was only made to make controversy in the first place.

this is very true. it's not like this is new news anyway.

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[ThatRandomGuy]

Male:
Testosterone outnumbers Estrogen?  ☑
Presence of external genitalia?  ☑
Larger, thicker bones?  ☑
broad shoulders?  ☑

Female:
Estrogen outnumbers testosterone?  ☑
larger pelvis to allow child birth?  ☑
Internal Genitalia?  ☑
smaller frame compared to male?  ☑
larger breasts containing mammary glands? ☑

Transgender male-to-female:
Estrogen outnumbers Testosterone by hormone treatments?  ☑
Internal genitalia by surgery? ☑
larger pelvis to allow childbirth? ✖
Larger, thicker bones? ☑
Smaller frame compared to male? ✖
Larger breasts that CAN produce milk? ☑

( This is just my overview, I just want to input a few things but If I am not correct on a few things I'll change it because I'm just using my general knowledge on this basically )

[Frequency]

Transgender male-to-female:
Estrogen outnumbers Testosterone by hormone treatments?  ☑
Internal genitalia by surgery? ☑
larger pelvis to allow childbirth? ✖
Larger, thicker bones? ☑
Smaller frame compared to male? ✖
Larger breasts that CAN produce milk? ☑

"This isn't even my final form."

[ultimamax]

Male:
Testosterone outnumbers Estrogen?  ☑
Presence of external genitalia?  ☑
Larger, thicker bones?  ☑
broad shoulders?  ☑

Female:
Estrogen outnumbers testosterone?  ☑
larger pelvis to allow child birth?  ☑
Internal Genitalia?  ☑
smaller frame compared to male?  ☑
larger breasts containing mammary glands? ☑

Transgender male-to-female:
Estrogen outnumbers Testosterone by hormone treatments?  ☑
Internal genitalia by surgery? ☑
larger pelvis to allow childbirth? ✖
Larger, thicker bones? ☑
Smaller frame compared to male? ✖
Larger breasts that CAN produce milk? ☑

( This is just my overview, I just want to input a few things but If I am not correct on a few things I'll change it because I'm just using my general knowledge on this basically )

This issue is not about denying science or her genetics. It's about respect, if you read the thread there are many good perspectives on this.

[joe411]

Well think of it this way. You can provide some reasoning and maybe make a dent. Or you can say he's wrong because it's a fact that he's wrong, nothing will change and he'll continue being a dumbass and thinking he's correct. In essence you're affirming his behavior.

If there was good enough reasoning, I might change my opinion.
But literally all they ever said was "no your opinion is wrong and mine is right"
Not exactly convincing.

[Alternat¡ve]

If there was good enough reasoning, I might change my opinion.
But literally all they ever said was "no your opinion is wrong and mine is right"
Not exactly convincing.

Says the guy whos argument consisted of "hurr im a carrot see how dumb that sounds??"

[Kearn]

sure is crazy how much a mental illness can mess with a person

[Bisjac]

technically it is our business what he does. because he is playing up his celebrity status, and obviously making money from this in the future.

[Narkro555]

I might be able to see where things like this go too far, such as the person I knew who changed genders twice and now asks everyone to address her "they," for gender neutrality. But I can't see any reasons why you shouldn't respect someone with gender dysphoria. It is a real thing, and causes a lot of mental trouble for people who feel like it's not right. Therefore, corrective surgery and hormone treatment is perfectly applicable. And even before looking like a woman, using male pronouns for someone obvious not mentally male is disrespectful.

I notice that, throughout this, you've addressed Caitlyn Jenner as male, he, and him. Now that she even looks unquestionably like a woman, addressing her as her former gender is almost deliberately disrespectful. If there's anything I've learned, if someone says something like,

I have nothing against homoloveuals, or transloveuals/transgenders,

...chances are, you most likely have something against homoloveuals and transloveuals/transgenders.

[ultimamax]

sure is crazy how much a mental illness can mess with a person

click the img for source

[Kearn]

i forgot the inb4semantics

https://youtu.be/j4uMLe_XJe4?t=340

trans person seems to think otherwise

[Bisjac]

so then most trans people DO technically have mental disorders since nearly all of them excuse the change because they cant cope with their feelings or place i the world.
thats a distress lol

[Steve5451²]

I see being transgender arguably a mental disorder. Mental disorder is a pretty strong word though, and gender is such a touchy subject sometimes that I know that's hella offensive to the LGBTBBQVOTL community.

[Courage]

no

[Narkro555]

On the topic of it being a "disorder," I think maybe when they're in distress from being the wrong gender it could be called as such. But when you undergo hormone treatment as much as so your body recognizes itself as female, and you look the part of your mental gender, it could be considered "cured," as your mind and body are then aligned and you no longer have said distress.