This is why I kept my views on feminism away from my family.

[Jubel]

You say that as if you actually have any capacity to change your views on this

He hasn't been providing anything of substance either aside from "girl touched my butt"

[Ad Bot]

[Col. Derontchi]

He hasn't been providing anything of substance either aside from "girl touched my butt"

Or any of the other examples you conveniently overlooked.

Calling out fallacies does not win an argument, nor does it prove who is right or wrong.

I mentioned this same thing earlier. I am aware, thank you. But in this case, the entire argument is based on something I never even said, which alone, is false. I still went on to explain myself.

You say that as if you actually have any capacity to change your views on this

I honestly do. However, there must be substantial evidence to convince me that feminism is needed in the first world, which I have not yet received.

to make fun of people like you

I'm looking for a counterargument. Sorry, I thought it would be assumed during a debate. My mistake for not clarifying.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

probably my favorite part of this conversation has been that this entire time OP's been moaning at us to prove our claims without once proving any of his

[Foxscotch]

I'm looking for a counterargument.

no you're not

[Col. Derontchi]

probably my favorite part of this conversation has been that this entire time OP's been moaning at us to prove our claims without once proving any of his

I have at least provided specific examples to back up my claims, which is a hell of a lot more than anything I have received. Unsarcastically, I would welcome evidence of how modern feminism is equality for women.

[Shift Kitty]

I don't see the point of this.

"Debunked". How were they debunked? All that was said to me was "dubstep is about equality because dubstep is about equality". I have yet to change my mind because nobody has provided any sort of actual counter examples or proof to back up their claims. You have not "debunked" stuff. I have given several reasons demonstrating the lack of "equality" within dubstep. It's not just direct actions, but also lack of action and the turning of blind eyes to certain issues. Equality is not one-sided.

You say that as if you actually have any capacity to change your views on this

Which is funny because he also said this:

Not very open-minded of you.

Like he's open-minded at all.

However, there must be substantial evidence to convince me that feminism is needed in the first world, which I have not yet received.

Is it really for you to decide though?

probably my favorite part of this conversation has been that this entire time OP's been moaning at us to prove our claims without once proving any of his

Which shows very poor debating skills. I wonder if he passed that one thing in his English class about some feminism debate.

I have at least provided specific examples to back up my claims,

Where?

[Darryl McKoy]

I honestly do. However, there must be substantial evidence to convince me that feminism is needed in the first world, which I have not yet received.

Yeah bullstuff. You're only interested in looking at evidence that affirms your views.

I hope you eventually go to university and study something in which feminist theory forms a part. You'll very quickly realise that all the views that you're holding onto are complete dribble.

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

I have at least provided specific examples to back up my claims, which is a hell of a lot more than anything I have received. Unsarcastically, I would welcome evidence of how modern feminism is equality for women.

hahahaha
you made up your mind about this debate waaaay before you even posted this thread

[Col. Derontchi]

Yeah bullstuff. You're only interested in looking at evidence that affirms your views.

I hope you eventually go to university and study something in which feminist theory forms a part. You'll very quickly realise that all the views that you're holding onto are complete dribble.

Go ahead. If you have evidence, for whatever reason you've been holding back all this time, present it now. Please. I beg of you.

hahahaha
you made up your mind about this debate waaaay before you even posted this thread

No stuff I had an opinion. I'm only waiting on substantial evidence, or at least SOME evidence, that reaffirms feminism's usefulness.

Where?

I then further explained how they were wrong, and even STATED that an argument containing a fallacy does not disprove the argument. It's not what I have assumed, it's what I have observed first hand, mostly through social media, real life, or the news. I have a feminist friend who defines loveism as "discrimination against women". I have had my ass slapped in the middle of class by my female classmates, and nobody bat an eye. Why are they not registered love offenders? I have been told that getting a tattoo in a foreign language is culture appropriation. I have been told repeatedly that my opinion is not valid because I was born the wrong race, with the wrong set of genitals. I have many more examples at the ready. And none of these were isolated incidences, they are repeated over and over.

If you call yourself a feminist, you are a feminist. There is no defined standard. I just don't understand why people would want to be associated with them. I don't see how feminism supports equality in the slightest. First, there is the Guardian, which never ceases to amaze me with its bullstuff. Next, there's the obvious bias towards women's issues over men's. In many cases, they take gender-neutral issues and portray women as the primary victims, even though men experience usually the same or worse treatment in that issue. Then, there's the victim complex. Women are always the victim. This is why we never see any advocacy, but silencing of, men's issues. For example, the feminist backlash at the MRA assembly in Toronto awhile back. Then, there's the selective services, workplace deaths, Self Delete rates, assault rates, obvious bias towards women in the judicial system, the list continues. Feminism has displayed itself that it is not about equality both through its actions and lack thereof.

The only citation that article provides is a link to a 404, then to a page with further uncited and/or misleading figures. For example, listing the women in poverty, but leaving out that there are more homeless men than in any other category. The article has figured out that being a woman comes with its own set of unique problems in society, but leaves out men's. This is the problem with feminism. This exact mindset. For example, having to enlist in selective services to be able to vote, or males being the biggest victims of overall assault. The gender pay gap is based on an inspecific study that compared the earnings of full time men to full time women. It did not account for education or for hours. It's not as simple as "women get paid less because they're women".

I'm not saying cult just as a throw-away insult. I mean it actually shows characteristics of a cult. It is an ideology that its members follow blindly, it maintains a firm "us versus them" mentality, it has a throw away term for non-believers (misogynist, in this case), plus it behaves like a cult. For example, feminists police everything pertaining to rape (not always unjustly), but when one of their own (Lena Dunham), commits the same act, they will go to new lengths to defend her. Why? Because she bares the same shiny label of feminism. Another specific example is the feminist rally at the MRA meetup in Toronto. When the leader with the megaphone began the chant, she said "feminism under attack, what do we do? (Stand up fight back)", but cleverly changed it to "women under attack, what do we do? (Stand up, fight back)." Feminism often uses the guise of loveism to gain more power within politics. This is why I said earlier that feminism is now the establishment.

[Col. Derontchi]

Actually, first quote isn't as useful. My apologies.

[Darryl McKoy]

Go ahead. If you have evidence, for whatever reason you've been holding back all this time, present it now.

If you're not willing to look for evidence yourself, it's obvious you're not going to look at it objectively when we find it for you.

Your interest isn't in educating yourself, that's the problem.

[Foxscotch]

I'm only waiting on substantial evidence, or at least SOME evidence, that reaffirms feminism's usefulness.

evidence of what? what do you even want people to prove???

[Akio]

this thread is a nightmare. i'm not sure whether to laugh or cringe. pathetic.

[IkeTheGeneric]

evidence of what? what do you even want people to prove???

he doesn't want to prove anything he just wants to argue and pat himself on the back if somebody agrees with him

[otto-san]

I have at least provided specific examples to back up my claims, which is a hell of a lot more than anything I have received. Unsarcastically, I would welcome evidence of how modern feminism is equality for women.

non-exhaustive list of some issues which are subjects of modern western feminism, mostly from a female perspective, though some of these negatively affect men as well:
-income inequality: that women are being directly paid less on average and/or that women are disproportionately present in lower-paying positions and have excessive difficulty in comparison to men getting promoted to higher-paying positions or receiving higher-paying jobs (glass ceiling)
-reproductive rights: desire for right to control one's own reproductive decisions free of stigma, most notably abortion and birth control of course, but this also includes stigma associated with pregnancy and motherhood which affect women, both in work and in personal life
-gender roles: that cultural expectations of what it means to be male/female directly cause social inequality (and indirectly, economic inequality) by excessively burdening men/women to conform to idealised archetypes
-political voice: contention that women are unequally represented in political processes in comparison to men
-representation in media: idea that idealised standards for men/women are perpetuated by media, pressuring individuals to conform to these standards to meet a cultural expectation
-violent crimes against men/women: that western cultures fail to completely and seriously address crimes like rape and domestic abuse and their effects on the victim

really quick run-downs of each which you can feel free to agree/disagree with but here are some examples of how feminism still works for equality. note that even if you don't agree with the push for these, they are still movements for equality nevertheless.