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Author Topic: POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD  (Read 2280726 times)

because if he doesn't listen to me, a minority born into abject poverty on an Indian reservation working 2 minimum wage jobs and busting my ass to maintain scholarships to go to college, sitting here and telling him that raising the minimum wage would hurt me directly, then he wont listen to anyone at all.

you're not a real x

you're not a real x
lineage from two war chiefs, one paternal one maternal, enrolled in my tribe, but clearly i am bullstuffting this for brownie points
I won't even be surprised if this is what comes forward as a "rebuttal"

I have every dog in this fight, being a minority born into poverty currently working 2 minimum wage jobs to pay for college. I'm sitting here saying that raising the minimum wage will forget me over. But watch the mental gymnastics about to ensue. I didn't bitch and moan about minimum wage being too low. I'm not a democrat, I went and solved the problem myself by taking on additional responsibility and double shifting. My work ethic is good. I am fully capable. And I'm glad to have the opportunity to work.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 08:51:20 PM by Cappytaino »

In other words, raising the minimum wage will cause employers to become more unwilling to hire the exact types of people that minimum wage jobs are intended to help (young people joining the work force and gaining experience)
wanted to try to see if the real-life numbers reflected this claim and found this some data that might help discussion
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.htm

i'm always on the fence about minimum wage personally. i understand the theoretical economic implications of it all, just wish there were a way to help the people who are trying to live on stuffty minimum wage jobs. the answer, i guess, would probably be to help them find their ways into better jobs that pay better, that's just a whole lot more complicated to implement (and fund) lol

wanted to try to see if the real-life numbers reflected this claim and found this some data that might help discussion
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2016/home.htm

i'm always on the fence about minimum wage personally. i understand the theoretical economic implications of it all, just wish there were a way to help the people who are trying to live on stuffty minimum wage jobs. the answer, i guess, would probably be to help them find their ways into better jobs that pay better, that's just a whole lot more complicated to implement (and fund) lol
Minimum wage is, as was said before, intended not to be a livable wage. Minimum wage jobs are intended as a way for people to get their "foot in the door" so to speak in the labor market. The intention (and sensible path) is that one will invest their money into themselves to market themselves as a desirable employee (whether that be through a college degree, trade school, or some other vocational training or certification).

If you're above the age of 25 or so and still making minimum wage, you're in the minority and no longer using the job as intended. Community college is affordable and a great way to boost one's marketable skills (some things such as becoming a certified bookkeeper can be one six-month course, or a Real Estate certification being anywhere from 6mos to 1 yr depending on where you are.)

My point being, the path to a livable wage isn't entry level positions, was never intended to be, and people should stop trying to raise minimum wage to force entry level positions to be livable (as the aforementioned negative consequences will hurt growth and those trying to enter the workforce for the first time.)

You have to invest in yourself, your own skills, and your own credentials to get a livable wage. Community college, trade school, apprenticeships, etc, any of that can help.

As this table shows, having a bachelors degree at the least is invaluable, as it increases one's ability to pay for their cost of living and then save any surplus, or invest that money (stocks, 401k/403b retirement fund, mutual funds, etc) to provide for you when you retire. Now more than ever, a bachelors' degree is the new "Standard" for any sort of reasonable employment, as employers desire employees which have the core skills a college education will provide (reading, writing, critical thinking, research and citation, arithmetic, etc.)

It's not that hard to understand. Economic literacy and personal finance isn't difficult stuff, it just requires time and effort to learn about.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 09:00:26 PM by Cappytaino »


if i'm reading the stats i linked correctly, about 55% of people earning at or below federal minimum wage are 25 or older (table 1). defo not a minority if this is the case

still, i would agree that the problem here isn't necessarily the minimum wage, but rather the fact that so many people are relying on minimum wage jobs. obviously, these aren't millions of people willingly settling for terrible hourly wages when they could be taking better jobs, so you gotta assume that there's something holding them back. and i imagine this is often just unfortunate practical realities; if you have to work minimum wage full time to survive, working with little to no pay as an intern or apprentice isn't an option, and devoting a significant portion of your time to education isn't either, the alternative being to rack up loads of debt, and even tho imo education is a reasonable debt to gain, living on debt for a few years of your life may not be the best idea, and depending on someone's personal situation, may not even be an option

the things i'm talking about though are obvs outside the scope of a discussion of minimum wage

if i'm reading the stats i linked correctly, about 55% of people earning at or below federal minimum wage are 25 or older (table 1). defo not a minority if this is the case

still, i would agree that the problem here isn't necessarily the minimum wage, but rather the fact that so many people are relying on minimum wage jobs. obviously, these aren't millions of people willingly settling for terrible hourly wages when they could be taking better jobs, so you gotta assume that there's something holding them back. and i imagine this is often just unfortunate practical realities; if you have to work minimum wage full time to survive, working with little to no pay as an intern or apprentice isn't an option, and devoting a significant portion of your time to education isn't either, the alternative being to rack up loads of debt, and even tho imo education is a reasonable debt to gain, living on debt for a few years of your life may not be the best idea, and depending on someone's personal situation, may not even be an option

the things i'm talking about though are obvs outside the scope of a discussion of minimum wage
I hate to bring in personal anecdotes so often, but I was born into a family making $16k annually between 2 workers, with 8 children. This is obviously a very stuffty situation. But neither parent was college educated and both had made many poor life decisions which resulted in them being in such a situation.

I wanted to go to college and to continue to law school, but obviously I have 0 help paying for it. I have about half of my expenses covered by a merit scholarship (awarded for academic excellence, must maintain a gpa of 3.8 or higher of 4 possible points) and the other half, I work two jobs to pay. I will graduate with zero debt because I am paying my own way through college. It's hard work. I have very little free time. I'm on my feet all day. I don't get to sit down until 8 PM when i get home. But it's worth it to advance myself.

It's entirely possible to create opportunities. I've had to bust my ass to do it. The intro to the Great Gatsby comes to mind,

"In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice that I’ve been turning over in my mind ever since.
“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”
He didn’t say any more, but we’ve always been unusually communicative in a reserved way, and I understood that he meant a great deal more than that."

I understand that while I may not have many advantages, what I do have is tremendous work ethic, and I'm doing what I can to open a pathway to advancement and success for myself, and I understand that while there are some worse off than me, my responsibility and obligation is to do what I can to advance myself and build my future. I work my ass off, but it'll all be worth it.



ye, it's not impossible to climb your way up, and there are plenty of people that do it and become better people in the end because of it. only i think is that it's not fair to blame people for not reaching the bar when they have to jump ten feet higher to grab it than anyone else, and i advocate for helping people reach that bar through investment in things like education and training opportunities so they don't have to make such large sacrifices to find the same success as others






i got flashbacks to cousin mel