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Author Topic: POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD  (Read 2884908 times)

nobody would have enough resources to innovate because the people with good ideas would get the same amount of resources as the people with bad ideas, as per the definition of socialism
and if you want to take it one step further, people wouldn't work as hard to realize these ideas, because regardless of what they do they'd still get everything the dedicated person does, as per the definition of socialism
p sure that's not the definition of socialism, nor is it strictly the definition of communism

and a lot of what poli is saying in this area is accurate. capitalism incentivizes and encourages innovation that has economic practicality, ergo the most successful innovations under a capitalist economy are the ones that can be used for profit. of course, this doesn't mean that these innovations can't benefit people, but it does mean that they are monetized to primarily benefit the sellers rather than the populace as a whole, and ideas that can't practically benefit sellers are less likely to be successful, even if highly beneficial to everyone else. whether or not that matters is up to one's own ethical priorities (not saying this to be snide, that's just how it be on this bitch of an earth).

that doesn't make it any less impractical
pure capitalism and pure socialism, as i'm sure you probably agree, are both impractical. there are benefits to be had from both systems, but also significant drawbacks. unchecked socialist systems can obviously suffer from problems of incentive, leading to more a more stagnant economy. unchecked capitalist systems can suffer from severe inequality and abuse, stratifying societies and creating poor living conditions for the less fortunate. we have public roads, healthcare, education, law enforcement etc. because they bolster our primarily free enterprise market space and simultaneously provide immense benefits to our citizens. we also place restrictions when we find businesses to be abusive, and try to stop uncompetitive business practices that create unfair spaces in our economy for both consumers and suppliers. we also allow our governments to mint our currencies, influence the banking system, and spend money, because we find these things to be (in proper use) beneficial to everyone. this isn't a black-and-white thing, and we're better off thinking about the real benefits that these ideas can potentially provide than waving them off as impractical by nature.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:48:39 PM by otto-san »



Socializing certain industries is provably successful though, especially in other post-industrial societies like us. It depends on how it gets implemented, but the fact that the word 'socialism' is thrown behind it does not make it instantly a bad idea.

I'm talking about specifically Sanders's model where college, healthcare, etc. is free for all with diddly squat to pay for it
it's impossible to have something like that function for an extended period of time

I'm talking about specifically Sanders's model where college, healthcare, etc. is free for all with diddly squat to pay for it
It's paid for by taxes, like everything else lol.


It's paid for by taxes, like everything else lol.

A 90% tax rate is ok

it's impossible to have something like that function for an extended period of time
Except of course in the countries where they already function. Apart from those examples you're right, it's 100% impossible.

I'm voting for the Rock in 2020, forget bernie
me: so what has dwayne johnson done to make him qualified to be president

the rock:

I'm talking about specifically Sanders's model where college, healthcare, etc. is free for all with diddly squat to pay for it
it's impossible to have something like that function for an extended period of time
its actually perfectly possible. colleges already make 80x than what they actually need to function off of rejected applications, alumni and student sports. if some of the tuition was cut out for the colleges (it would be unconstitutional) then colleges could have greatly reduced tuition without higher taxes

fortunately and unfortunately america is too american and therefore government taking money from businesses is 'unamerican' so this scenario would never happen, even if said business is using immoral practices to achieve its wealth
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:20:17 PM by PhantOS »

fortunately and unfortunately america is too american and therefore government taking money from businesses is 'unamerican' so this scenario would never happen, even if said business is using immoral practices to achieve its wealth

People generally don't like their money being taken away

People generally don't like their money being taken away
now you know why people are upset about paying 30,000 a year for college

it all boils down to "should people pay 30% of their yearly income for college or should college pay 5% of its yearly income for 1000 students"

free tuition is very farfetched and unreasonable, but a 5-7,000 grant per student is definitely possible. even that could save students around 8 months of work


battle for truth

sometimes i cant help but wonder whether this whole administration is a meme or if the msm is such geniuses that they manipulate us to this extent

I
I mean

did you even

the video literally has Bernie saying on tape that Comey should resign

also what the forget are you talking about "circumstances have changed", Bernie wanted Comey out, then Annoying Orange fires Comey and he flips his position
how you extrapolate "everything's different now so my guy's inconsistency is validated!!!1!!11!!!!" from that is beyond me but frankly it's loving annoying
again, i'm saying he did not write the tweet yelling at Annoying Orange for firing comey, bernie has only said that first part himself. the circumstances have changed, though, because nobody would say anything if he was fired with nothing going on, but the fact of the matter is he waited until comey started investigating him to fire him.
except they don't, because you get healthcare for yourself and not for somebody else
that is the fundamental idea behind healthcare
it's YOUR idea of what healthcare should be, not everyone's gonna agree with that.
it's less they saw an economic opportunity and more the looming threat of fascism from one empire and that we got attacked by another fascistic empire at the same time
but please continue with your warped sense of history
the overwhelming majority of americans remained adamantly against entering world war 2, but were completely fine with profiting off of it until we were attacked by japan.
keep in mind also that ww2 was far from the only time we've done something like this.
would you rather have the opposite where everyone is jobless, broke, and literally stealing food and silverware from restaurants that didn't shut down to get by?
...no? i want workers to benefit directly from the wealth they themselves create, rather than the CEOs / executives taking it all.
I can't read pure socialist jargon but I think what you're trying to say is that the people who worked during wartime didn't really want to do it and were forced, and that they didn't get a lot for it, all of which is patently false
that's not what i said, but it doesn't surprise me that you would dismiss it as jargon in order to simplify it and ignore it.
"didn't get a lot for it" - the benefits they reaped literally created the middle class as we know it today
ah yes, the great american middle class. totally not getting actively forgeted over by the top 1% of income earners or anything like that.
nobody would have enough resources to innovate because the people with good ideas would get the same amount of resources as the people with bad ideas, as per the definition of socialism
and if you want to take it one step further, people wouldn't work as hard to realize these ideas, because regardless of what they do they'd still get everything the dedicated person does, as per the definition of socialism
i think you're operating on a fundamentally flawed view of how this would work. The point of socialism is that everybody gets adequate resources, resources that would be proportionally allocated depending on the field you work in. scientists would receive the resources necessary to innovate, but it would be the resources that they need. there wouldn't be any janitors being given scientific equipment, because it would be given to the scientists. if that janitor went to college and became a scientist, though, he would then have access to these resources along with every other scientist.
because rich people don't work hard to get their wealth and power, they all just get it from their parents
who
worked hard to get their wealth and
and

ooh look free stuff
not even sure what you're saying here tbh
also, please don't say stuff will "statistically happen" without providing statistics
where do you think you are
NeoGAF
why would i need to provide statistics for that? let me illustrate what im trying to tell you here with an example:
a group is tasked with finding a number between 1 and 100. 10 people are selected, and in one instance all 10 people are placed in separate rooms and, though they ware working towards the same goal, they each have a task that has a 1/100 of being completed. now imagine all 10 of those people are allowed to be in the same room and guess all at once. this makes the likelihood of them guessing the correct number 1/10, as opposed to 1/100.
you're talking about reverse engineering as though it's a chore, meanwhile you get paid a whole lot to do it and you get to figure out how things work
do you know how popular the show "How It's Made" is and other stuff like that?
I've been to four engineering camps and I'm going to be counseling at a fifth one, and every single time reverse engineering is brought up it's been a smash hit
every single time
doesn't matter how "fun" reverse engineering is, it literally wouldn't be necessary (and you wouldnt have to pay people to do it) if the innovative knowledge was made public from the get-go.
you also fail to explain how companies can control the market with unreleased products when they don't release them, which every single company that wants to make bank will do with all of their technology eventually
otherwise it will get discovered via industrial espionage, which yes is illegal sometimes, but that's only sometimes
to give a recent and relatively simple example, consider Battlefield 1. people liked the idea of a WW1 game, so it made a lot of money. call of duty, who had been falling behind in sales due to them chasing the market trend of futuristic shooters, then started work on call of duty WW2, because they saw how well BF1 sold. Battlefield 1's release shifted the video game shooter market to be more profitable for world war shooters. now as for the unreleased part of it, battlefield 1 could have been released at any time. while it is still unreleased, they have the power to, at any given moment, change the market. maybe i wasn't specific enough, though. i kinda meant that it's moreso the controlled release of products at the time it is most advantageous to the company, and that waiting to release them whenever they want gives them a degree of control.
if it works don't try to fix it
and what exactly is your definition of a "working" economy? you would certainly have a tough time explaining how well our economy works to the 50 million americans below the poverty line, people who have been completely forgeted over by this economy. the economy certainly didn't "work" in their favor, did it?
literally the first comment on that socialist blog that you linked:
oops
there's a massive difference in what can be considered a "mixed economy" from both sides. america is considered a "mixed economy" despite not even guaranteeing healthcare to its citizens, and countries like sweden are, according to you, considered a "mixed economy" despite being noticeably more socialist.
who would these "CEOs" make the products for?
uh.. society? these CEOs are also apart of this society, so when they help society it helps them in return
who would craft them, or mass produce them?
the workers? people need some kind of job while they're receiving a higher education, and that's not to mention all the people who would rather just work as a laborer rather than go to college.
A 90% tax rate is ok
fake news


anyways how was your day guys
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:58:29 PM by Poliwhirl »