POLITICS & DONALD Annoying Orange MEGATHREAD

[TristanLuigi]

are you telling me sharia law isn't far right

Of course not. I'm telling you that not all Muslims want sharia law, just as not all Christians want a theocratic state.

On the other hand, religion does have a rightwards influence, and it's probably true that a higher percentage of Muslims are fundamentalists compared to Christians. I would argue this is more due to the fact that there are more Muslims in poorer regions with autocratic governments, rather than the religion itself; desperation and alienation breed extremism.

[Ad Bot]

[Frequency]

not all Christians want a theocratic state.

CHRISTIAN HERE; DEBATABLE.

[Cappytaino]

So basically the data is from a progressive organization dedicated to furthering "[America's] long tradition of progressive thought"


oh the author writes for the SPLC, it all makes sense now.

just found it interesting that in reading the source article, the idea that right wing terror incidents make up the majority of domestic terror to be slightly misleading, as while they are more prevalent and more often result in fatalities, 63 individual acts of Islamic domestic terror (of which 73% were foiled, leaving 17 successful attacks) claimed 90 lives while right wing terrorism resulted in 115 attempted attacks, of which 35% were foiled, leaving 74 successful attacks which claimed 79 lives.

I just think that it's slightly misleading in that the average act of Islamic terror claims approximately 5.3 victims, while the average act of right wing terror claims approximately 1 single life, but the way in which the author presented the data seems to have attempted to minimize this and more so emphasize the number of incidents committed by each group. When roughly half of the country identifies as right-leaning, while just under 1% of the country self-identify as Muslims.

In summation, I find it to be quite ridiculous for the author to imply that Islamic terror is less of a problem than right-wing domestic terror when conservatives relative to the half of the population they represent have taken fewer lives than Muslims that make up one single percent of the 330+ million people in the USA.

[SeventhSandwich]

Neither problem is big enough to warrant screwing over refugees (or conservatives for that matter). We make far less drastic and harmful actions towards stuff like smoking and child obesity, which provably kill far, far more people.

[Cappytaino]

Neither problem is big enough to warrant screwing over refugees (or conservatives for that matter). We make far less drastic and harmful actions towards stuff like smoking and child obesity, which provably kill far, far more people.

But you have to admit that for less than one percent of the population, radical Muslims do commit acts of terror at a rate which is quite disproportionate to the size of the population which they represent.

I agree that it shouldn't result in a complete refusal to resettle refugees, but I don't personally believe that political asylum should be a path to citizenship.

[SeventhSandwich]

But you have to admit that for less than one percent of the population, radical Muslims do commit acts of terror at a rate which is quite disproportionate to the size of the population which they represent.

This is a statistical fact, but how you choose to interpret it is the important part here. The overall percentage of Muslims in the US who commit terrorism is very close to 0%. Just because it's a larger number than the ~0% among Christians doesn't mean that people should be stuffting on the entire religion as some kind of unique source of terrorism.

The experience of an American Muslim is way different than an American Christian. There are so many other variables at play than just the religion itself. If you look at politically unstable, poor regions of Africa, you can find fundamentalist Christians who commit terrorist atrocities that are near-indistinguishable from acts of Islamic terrorism. Remember that Joseph Kony guy from the meme in 2012? He ran the LRA which was an ultra-orthodox, Christian cult.

I agree that it shouldn't result in a complete refusal to resettle refugees, but I don't personally believe that political asylum should be a path to citizenship.

Accepting refugees is a good investment in world stability though. Leaving people in war-torn hellholes means allowing them to grow up in an environment which creates terrorists.

In other words, I think you could make a strong argument that accepting refugees is a long-term investment into less terrorism in the world.

[TristanLuigi]

This is a statistical fact, but how you choose to interpret it is the important part here. The overall percentage of Muslims in the US who commit terrorism is very close to 0%. Just because it's a larger number than the ~0% among Christians doesn't mean that people should be stuffting on the entire religion as some kind of unique source of terrorism.

The experience of an American Muslim is way different than an American Christian. There are so many other variables at play than just the religion itself. If you look at politically unstable, poor regions of Africa, you can find fundamentalist Christians who commit terrorist atrocities that are near-indistinguishable from acts of Islamic terrorism. Remember that Joseph Kony guy from the meme in 2012? He ran the LRA which was an ultra-orthodox, Christian cult.
Accepting refugees is a good investment in world stability though. Leaving people in war-torn hellholes means allowing them to grow up in an environment which creates terrorists.

In other words, I think you could make a strong argument that accepting refugees is a long-term investment into less terrorism in the world.

Seventh why are you so good at taking the things I was going to say, and then saying them better than I could

[Red Spy]

he's like 10 years older than you

[Køtt]

In other words, I think you could make a strong argument that accepting refugees is a long-term investment into less terrorism in the world.

what if that just puts more terrorists in our country because of religious bias though if you know what i mean

actual question because i need to get an understanding of terrorism and immigration

[SeventhSandwich]

what if that just puts more terrorists in our countries because of religious bias though if you know what i mean

actual question because i need to get an understanding of terrorism and immigration

US Customs/Immigration does care about making sure that we don't accidentally import terrorists as refugees. They put every single applicant through a rigorous series of screenings that, IIRC, involves like over a dozen individual agencies.

So the question is, does it work properly? Since 1980, no person accepted to the US as a refugee has committed a terrorist attack. This includes literally tens of thousands of Muslims who have been settled here since our involvement in the Iraq War/War in Afghanistan/Syrian Civil War.

Before that, there were three refugees who committed a terrorist attack, all who came from Cuba.

[Køtt]

by screenings you mean TSA mainly or other security agencies?

[Frankie²]

by screenings you mean TSA mainly or other security agencies?

other security agencies
dod, dhs, fbi, etc
while the tsa falls under that realm its not the only agency involved

[Køtt]

ah that makes sense

[SeventhSandwich]

by screenings you mean TSA mainly or other security agencies?

TSA isn't involved. They're mostly just an airport thing. I'm talking more about stuff like the UNHCR, DHS, and other federal agencies.

State.gov lists this on their website:

The Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration (PRM) of the U.S. Department of State.
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
The Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
Five international or nongovernmental organizations operating Resettlement Support Centers around the world under the supervision and funding of the Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration (PRM) of the U.S. Department of State
Nine domestic nongovernmental organizations with a total of about 350 affiliated offices across the United States.
Thousands of private citizens who volunteer their time and skills to help refugees resettle in the United States

It's a big operation and they put ridiculous scrutiny on every refugee application. It is literally the most strict process of all legal forms of US immigration, owing mostly to the fact that the areas refugees come from are some of the worst affected by terrorism.

[Deus Ex]

Neither problem is big enough to warrant screwing over refugees (or conservatives for that matter). We make far less drastic and harmful actions towards stuff like smoking and child obesity, which provably kill far, far more people.

forget refugees