Poll

what

Windows 95
9 (9.5%)
Windows 98
3 (3.2%)
Windows XP
7 (7.4%)
Windows Vista
4 (4.2%)
Windows 7
31 (32.6%)
Windows 8
10 (10.5%)
Windows 10
31 (32.6%)

Total Members Voted: 95

Author Topic: My computer is upgrading to windows 10 without consent.  (Read 9480 times)

If linux can actually be of any use, that would be great. Im growing out of windows it seems. To much built in adware and service bullstuff now.

Hello uh i wanted to ask something.
How do i upgrade to Windows 10?
I looked trough my PC but i didnt see jackstuff about a Windows 10 Upgrade.
Where is it?

Hello uh i wanted to ask something.
How do i upgrade to Windows 10?
I looked trough my PC but i didnt see jackstuff about a Windows 10 Upgrade.
Where is it?
What, you really can't find it?

So let me get this straight, there are people that don't want Windows 10 getting it installed, and then there's people who want it but for some reason never get notified?


Uhh you probably didn't install the KB update that shows the "get windows 10" thingy.

yeah idk wtf is up with microsoft pullin this stuff. it tried to install automatically for me and i was able to stop it before the scheduled date

now that i hear windows 10 is getting bash i've gone ahead and updated but it's kinda disconcerting that they've been doin this stuff

Windows 10 is fine but also remember to mess with cmd and control panel to disable data collection and forced updates.

yeah idk wtf is up with microsoft pullin this stuff. it tried to install automatically for me and i was able to stop it before the scheduled date

now that i hear windows 10 is getting bash i've gone ahead and updated but it's kinda disconcerting that they've been doin this stuff
If you're concerned about MS forcing people to upgrade to win10 you should be much more concerned WHY they're forcing people to upgrade.

Windows 10 is fine but also remember to mess with cmd and control panel to disable data collection and forced updates.
There are some that can't be disabled. Unfortunately, those are the most invasive ones.

I already have windows 10

wait... my teachers cant upgrade their laptops from windows 8 to windows 10

and it will force them to

rip teachers

If you're concerned about MS forcing people to upgrade to win10 you should be much more concerned WHY they're forcing people to upgrade.
yeah that's what i'm most confused about

why are they so eager to give away free software

yeah that's what i'm most confused about

why are they so eager to give away free software
its only free until june

I tried updating to windows 10 some time ago, but it was hecked. a few drivers weren't working right, including graphics drivers (which made it mostly unusable) and network adapter drivers (which made it mostly unfixable)
so I reverted back to windows 8.1, and since then it's never bugged me. much less forced me to install it again
I'd still like to upgrade, but I also want to switch to linux as my main OS. in that case I would just install windows again on my second hard drive. but my windows key is for windows 8, and I'm kind of unsure about whether or not it'll offer me a free upgrade to 10 on a fresh install of 8, even though I'm currently eligible

its only free until june
yeah but they pester the H*ck outta you the entire time and as far as i could tell you couldn't make them stop

yeah but they pester the H*ck outta you the entire time and as far as i could tell you couldn't make them stop
it only tells you on the taskbar

a few drivers weren't working right
what's funny is how installing windows 10 fixed my drivers and I got my sound drivers back

I think I installed windows 10 just to see if my sound would come back

its only free until june
That doesn't explain why they're actually forcing upgrades onto people without their consent, especially considering that many people who don't upgrade are doing so for a reason.

yeah that's what i'm most confused about

why are they so eager to give away free software
Well, this is going to be a very long post, because it's a really complicated question and I have things I personally want to add to it. Sorry if you don't like that.

Let's think critically about it for a moment. Not just about why they're doing these forced upgrades, but why Win10 is free in the first place.

What normally drives a multibillion dollar company to do things? The answer to that isn't very complicated, of course it's money. It's why companies do anti-consumer bullcrap like put data caps on home internet to save single digit percentages of data usage and why they have certain pro-consumer things like customer support.

(Which to them is nothing more than an investment; you invest in customer service and you get returns off happier customers. If the investment isn't worth the money, they won't "invest" in customer support. Comcast is a prime example of this.)


So if we were to make the reasonable assumption that it's money that drives them to do these forced upgrades (Under the assumption that many people won't fight it), we can try to figure out what about a consumer having Windows 10 makes MS more money. Let's go through a few possibilities to try and cover all our bases and not jump to conclusions:

Windows 10 might have more software support than older versions, meaning that users have the capability to run and buy more software. However anything designed by MS is usually designed to work on Windows 7 and up, that's their sort of benchmark for compatibility now, and since Windows 7-8.1 are getting the upgrade opportunity, we can disregard that possibility.

It might be for the Windows 10 App Store, which does have some paid apps like games included. Maybe that's how they make their money? But there are so few people that even launch up the app store on even a semi-regular basis, let alone actually feel it worth it to pay money for a Windows 10 App, most of which are really just paid mobile games. It would make so little money that the potential losses from pissing off your customers with a forced upgrade would probably negate any profits made off of it. Even if I'm underestimating it slightly, it still would barely make MS any money and certainly wouldn't bring them into the black.

And it definitely can't be actually purchasing the OS, it's free, and they're forcing people to upgrade. So not only do they have to make up for the money from pissed off customers, but they have to make up for the millions of dollars lost for giving away the OS for free. So we need to find something which either makes a lot of money from a few users, or makes a little money from basically all of the users.


Now, there just so happens to be something of that second sort, and that's data mining. The basic premise of data mining is that you closely monitor what your users are doing, which is normally done by example Google, which uses Google brown townytics to try and figure out things about the user to give them targeted advertising. The more accurate and deep their information is, the more money they can get from advertisers and people who subscribe to paid Google brown townytics information.

But MS has something special: Full, unrestricted OS access, and the legal ability to look at all your network communications, emails, anything that they can reasonably automate. That means that they can paint an amazingly accurate portrait of who you are, what you like, what you don't, etc all from that information, all completely automated. They then sell this information to advertisers, which use it to target advertisements towards you. Obviously, if they advertise stuff you like rather than stuff you dislike they'll get more money, that's why they're willing to pay more for more accurate data. They don't make a ton of money off of individual people, but this is applied to every single person who uses Windows 10, and that's in the tens of millions already at the very least.

So this data mining practice can get them a ton of money, and it doesn't cost them a dime because as said before, so few people actually read privacy policies and understand them, and so few people seem to care about the implications of such things.

Even if people do find out about it, so few people are impacted by it that it still makes MS a massive amount of profit. Just goes to show, if the product's free, you're the product.


It's also a massive invasion of privacy, extremely dishonest and sketchy, but it's also very dangerous for the consumer which so few people seem to realize given the massive number of people using Windows 10. This level of access that they've stated in the privacy policy says that they have filesystem access, they have access to anything sent over your internet, they have access to any information on your computer. In order for that to work they'd need to have a backdoor inside the OS itself. And no self-respecting company would just leave this wide open; they'd hide it deep within the bowels of the OS and secure it somehow.

Now the way these kinds of things are normally secured is through something called public-key cryptography. It involves a lot of math but a grossly simplified version is imagine you had a lock on a door. Usually, you have one key to both lock and unlock the door. But with public-key cryptography, you have two keys: One to lock the door, and one to unlock the door. The one that locks the door is public and can't unlock the door, and the one that unlocks the door is private. Microsoft can also use this private key to "sign" a message that they send, verifying to anyone with the public key that the person who sent the message to them was Microsoft. So if they wanted to access a file on your harddrive for example, they could send "RETRIEVE "C:/Users/ottosan/Documents/Dirty Secrets.txt" (Signed by Microsoft)" (Obviously oversimplified.) And then the computer would retrieve and send the file.

Now you might be thinking "Great! The backdoor is secure and I trust Microsoft!" but it isn't that simple. The private key that they use to sign those messages and unlock those doors has to be stored somewhere; it's really just a random bunch of 1s and 0s that only a computer could understand. And it has to be on a server connected to the internet because the process needs to be automated for them to make any money. That means that the key is now vulnerable to many different kinds of attacks. This is included but not limited to government entities which might want access to peoples files, (*ahem*NSA*ahem*) hackers, and even disgruntled employees! You might also be thinking "Well you can't hack Microsoft. They made the darn thing." but you'd be wrong. Windows has had a ton of security flaws, all found by regular citizens, and thinking that their servers could be any different would be incredibly naive. Matter of fact is, that private key isn't so private, and anyone who gains access to that private key, that little string of 1s and 0s instantly gains complete, unrestricted access to every single computer running Windows 10, and Microsoft wouldn't even know that anyone had it.


Not only that, but this kind of thing sets a really bad precedent for digital privacy rights in general. Now that the government more than likely has complete unfettered access and is giving everything they have to local police without any warrants, the door is wiiiide open for abuse and even more whittling down of our privacy rights. Your local police force can gather data on every single person they can if they wanted to, literally looking through your files one by one. It's only a matter of time before people get wrongfully prosecuted and data leaks happen from corrupt cops looking to make a quick buck, having their lives ruined along with hundreds of other law abiding innocent citizens. It's an absolutely massively abusable power and the fact that so few people care about it really sucks, because this is a serious issue.

And not only that but now that our government has access, how long is it going to be before other countries governments ask for access? What happens when countries like Russia and China, which care even less about peoples privacy and more about silencing political dissent get their hands on that private key? How many journalists and activists do you think are going to have to 'drink the koolaid' so to speak before this kind of stuff is actually cared about by the people?

So you can tell, I'm quite passionate about this kind of thing, and this is why every time I see someone say "Windows 10 is great!" or "Just upgraded, liking it so far" it makes me a little sad, because what's going on is really the exact opposite of great.

forget, I spent all night writing this when I should have been studying.

Huge paragraph
You missed my post I guess.

Well I have to disagree with you this time again , I know we have argued it countless times, but this time I discovered one thing.

You have copied and pasted an image of the privacy statement for the Windows 10 Insider Preview Program about 4 times.


This doesn't apply to the normal releases, because a user has to opt-in to the insider preview program for these privacy terms to even take effect, to be specific here is the page that the screenshot is from (near the bottom):
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-privacy-statement

For those who are not aware, the Windows Insider Preview program, is a program that lets people test a new version of Windows 10 before its released to consumers, considering they are Test Builds, they require feedback to debug issues and find out how to improve UX, obviously the preview builds have less privacy and are not intended for consumers to be using them as their daily OS.

It even says at the top that it applies only to the pre-release versions of windows.
The consumer version of Windows 10 does have slightly less privacy when compared to older versions like 7 and 8/8.1, but the person has the ability to disable many things such as telemetry and settings that automatically send feedback during the OOBE (Out of the box experience) the user is also not forced to make a Microsoft account and can use a local account.

Ipquarx please do not take my post as a "attack", I just wanted to clarify something I have been investigating for a few months now, and today after looking in to it again I have confirmed this, I do not plan on changing your opinion on Windows 10, but something stood out of the screenshot you kept posting over and over again, so I had to look into it.

I really don't want this to turn into 20 pages of arguments so lets be mature about this and not derail the thread into an endless argument over privacy again.

By the way my only gripe about Windows 10 is the fact there is a setting that is enabled by default that is basically an ad in the start menu, to disable that you need to go to settings>personalization>start and toggle "occasionally show suggestions in start" from on to off, and that will stop stuff like candy crush from showing up in your start menu.

That setting wont be there for long, they are considering removing that in the Anniversary Update since its literally an ad in start, and people made it clear they don't like it, all 8491 people.

In other words, you have been posting the wrong information.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 12:29:45 AM by ZERØ »

In other words, you have been posting the wrong information.
That statement was taken from the general privacy policy that applies to the windows 10 full release as well as the insider preview, so no it's not incorrect information. They're in both privacy policies, sorry for any confusion that may have caused.