[NEWS] Confederate monuments are being torn down in the South

[Nonnel]

turn on the air conditioning

[Ad Bot]

[Drydess]

texas is too cool for air conditioning
ba dum tss

[Tactical Nuke]

there's a difference between what i posted and him actually admitting to liking fascism

also you're deflecting really hard right now just saying

why should I even attempt to argue with you when you're willing to delegitimize people's arguments for extraneous factors

but whatever

The removal of these monuments is wrong because these things have objective historical value, plus the removal reinforces the "diversity of everything but thought" way of thinking that the Western world keeps slipping towards. Want to prove that racism is bad? Give it equal theater to other ideas like equality and see who comes out on top. These monuments could've had the chance to be privy to this, but instead, they're getting snubbed because "they're offensive!!11!1!!!!1"

If the controversial significance of a statue is enough to get it removed, then why don't we remove the Malcolm X statue in NYC? How about monuments to Nelson Mandela, a leader but nonetheless also a domestic terrorist? Why don't we just remove all the statues of the founding fathers, all who owned slaves? There are millions of reasons to remove any statue, that doesn't actually mean you do it. That doesn't mean you try and demonize the people who wanted it to stay as tribals; maybe some people just like to preserve history untouched?

You don't stop racism by removing these statues, you don't change minds, and for those with better memory, you certainly don't clear yourself of any wrongdoing by disregarding your past. You just set yourself up for failure again.

[SeventhSandwich]

How about monuments to Nelson Mandela, a leader but nonetheless also a domestic terrorist?

I don't mean to tunnel-vision here, but this is a statement that absolutely requires further elaboration/evidence.

[Nonnel]

It's not like they're being destroyed, they're going to be moved to a museum or something where they can be put in proper context rather than in public where they could be seen as commemorations to the figures rather than reminders of the horrible things that happened in the South in the past.

[Wesley Williams]

Friendly reminder that there were good people in the South too

[DrenDran]

I don't mean to tunnel-vision here, but this is a statement that absolutely requires further elaboration/evidence.

Nelson Mandela actually did bomb a power substation. That's what he was arrested for, not some vague charge of "fighting for freedom" or whatever. Also South Africa's GDP per capita decreased and crime increased every year he was in office, though that's beside the point.

Quote from Wikipedia about the bombings:

Operating through a cell structure, MK planned to carry out acts of sabotage that would exert maximum pressure on the government with minimum casualties; they sought to bomb military installations, power plants, telephone lines, and transport links at night, when civilians were not present. Mandela stated that they chose sabotage because it was the least harmful action, did not involve killing, and offered the best hope for racial reconciliation afterwards; he nevertheless acknowledged that should this have failed then guerrilla warfare might have been necessary.[122] Soon after ANC leader Luthuli was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, MK publicly announced its existence with 57 bombings on Dingane's Day (16 December) 1961, followed by further attacks on New Year's Eve.

The GDP per capita.

edit: He wasn't a horrible guy but he's not a messiah either. Maybe decent intentions but no real political skill.

[Nonnel]

Friendly reminder that there were good people in the South too

I'd say the statue that's actually being taken down has debatable meaning but Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis are fine by me for movement

[Trogtor]

if im white can i sign up for black people meet?

nobody answered my question

[RedGajin]

why should I even attempt to argue with you when you're willing to delegitimize people's arguments for extraneous factors

but whatever

The removal of these monuments is wrong because these things have objective historical value, plus the removal reinforces the "diversity of everything but thought" way of thinking that the Western world keeps slipping towards. Want to prove that racism is bad? Give it equal theater to other ideas like equality and see who comes out on top. These monuments could've had the chance to be privy to this, but instead, they're getting snubbed because "they're offensive!!11!1!!!!1"

If the controversial significance of a statue is enough to get it removed, then why don't we remove the Malcolm X statue in NYC? How about monuments to Nelson Mandela, a leader but nonetheless also a domestic terrorist? Why don't we just remove all the statues of the founding fathers, all who owned slaves? There are millions of reasons to remove any statue, that doesn't actually mean you do it. That doesn't mean you try and demonize the people who wanted it to stay as tribals; maybe some people just like to preserve history untouched?

You don't stop racism by removing these statues, you don't change minds, and for those with better memory, you certainly don't clear yourself of any wrongdoing by disregarding your past. You just set yourself up for failure again.

wait so you really just compared Nelson mandelas movement to end incredibly inhumane and tribal laws in south africa that violated basic human rights to...slavery? he didn't slaughter white people, this is a horrible brown townogy.

tbh this is just another instance of conservatives getting upset because they're having another one of their backwards values attacked and they can't handle it🤷🏾‍♂️

[Crunchwrap]

thats too bad. people should really open their eyes and realize the south used to have a pretty solid labor system in the 1860s

[Wesley Williams]

I'd say the statue that's actually being taken down has debatable meaning but Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis are fine by me for movement

Explain why we should remove monuments to Robert E. Lee built in the late 1800s that were not viewed as controversial in any way at the time.

[otto-san]

nobody answered my question

I'd also like to know this.

[Tactical Nuke]

what does it mean

[Nonnel]

Explain why we should remove monuments to Robert E. Lee built in the late 1800s that were not viewed as controversial in any way at the time.

It's not like they're being destroyed, they're going to be moved to a museum or something where they can be put in proper context rather than in public where they could be seen as commemorations to the figures rather than reminders of the horrible things that happened in the South in the past.

Also I don't see what a statue not being controversial at the time of creation has to do with anything. If there were a giant statue of Riddler in the middle of Berlin, I would expect them to get rid of it.