[NEWS] Confederate monuments are being torn down in the South

[Gytyyhgfffff]

Nobody has argued this

well

I'm particularly appalled at the lack of respect for history here

"but muh white supremasseeeeeeeeeeee-"

the Japanese internment camps are kept up, and so is Auschwitz, why can't these be kept up?
because they make you uncomfortable? too bad, just move
because they inspire tribals? no they don't, not anymore, that stuff's been moved online
because it honors tribals? too bad, they did a lot of good (or bad) to get made into a monument while you do jack stuff working at home and sipping your Starbucks like a loving weeb
you could argue that everyone who's ever been made into a statue has had discriminatory tendencies, but you wouldn't dare ask that every single statue everywhere be taken down, so sit the forget down and keep sipping that latte friend, it's time you learned your nation's goddamn loving history

Christ that kinda turned into a rant didn't it

Revisionist history in full play. Hiding from history doomed us to repeat it. Also Democrats were the main players for the Confederates.

not going to count this towards my point of "liberals defacing history" because this user has lost their reputation as of late and i don't know if this is poe's law or not

In fact, by removing these parts of history, they are very well into the first couple of steps into repeating, not saying that's
out of character considering the intentions behind these actions, but keep an eye out.

what's the best way to learn from the mistakes of our past?
just forgetin forget about it dude makes sense

"this history contradicts my beliefs, so i better rewrite history to be more like my beliefs!"

Ignorance is strength.

War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

its supposed to mean something in this context.

Sure the history is horrible, but we shouldn't rewrite it to be less offensive. We should instead learn from it or be doomed to repeat it.

even others believe the pro-statue people are calling out liberals

i don't think at all that this is some revisionist liberal scheme to make people forget about the confederacy.

history isn't getting rewritten, though, the statues are going to be moved to a museum

but i think my "liberals defacing history" point was a overstatement. lord tony probably said something like that but he's forgetin lord tony. after looking over the posts of this thread nobody was really arguing that point. however there is definitely a fair share of people arguing that removing this monument is detrimental to history, no matter which political group was the one to tear it down

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[Wesley Williams]

Rewriting history sure, but not removing/hiding history. I'm not sure as to what Corderlain and Master Matthew were talking about, liberals love talking about America's tribal past.

For those interested in what people mean by liberals rewriting history to support their bias, check out what the College Board did with the AP United States History curriculum in 2014 and 2015. They rewrote it to revolve around struggles for peoples' rights and acceptance, there was a big conservative backlash, they ignored conservative complaints, then people threatened to use a competing business and they decided to re-revise their curriculum.

Coming from a background of public education in California, I can confirm that history and just about everything is presented from a liberal viewpoint, with teachers offering little compromise on their presentation of the material. I still remember when my APUSH teacher told the class that Fox News and MSNBC were conservative and liberal networks, while CNN was a neutral network that showed stories without any real bias. Good stuff.

[devildogelite]

The Confederacy never had a right to exist and we should not respect treason against the United States

[Master Matthew²]

Well, if they are truly moving the statues to a museum, then I'll retract my previous statement.
otherwise,  my statement will stand.

[Wesley Williams]

The Confederacy never had a right to exist and we should not respect treason against the United States

The states of the Confederacy are a part of the United States, so we shouldn't respect people from that part of the United States? I'm not saying there's any need to respect rebellion, but you have to keep in mind these are Americans we're talking about.

[otto-san]

Rewriting history sure, but not removing/hiding history. I'm not sure as to what Corderlain and Master Matthew were talking about, liberals love talking about America's tribal past.

For those interested in what people mean by liberals rewriting history to support their bias, check out what the College Board did with the AP United States History curriculum in 2014 and 2015. They rewrote it to revolve around struggles for peoples' rights and acceptance, there was a big conservative backlash, they ignored conservative complaints, then people threatened to use a competing business and they decided to re-revise their curriculum.

Coming from a background of public education in California, I can confirm that history and just about everything is presented from a liberal viewpoint, with teachers offering little compromise on their presentation of the material. I still remember when my APUSH teacher told the class that Fox News and MSNBC were conservative and liberal networks, while CNN was a neutral network that showed stories without any real bias. Good stuff.

i do have some sympathy for people who make history curricula, especially AP classes and similar levels. that's a ton of information to shove into a few months, and you definitely have to make some tough decisions about what makes the cut and what doesn't. presenting that information in a manner that's free of current cultural or personal influences is also pretty difficult. they probably also have to think about making sure to have information that's relevant to current cultural trends to make sure students can draw connections and learn relevant information at the same time

[Drydess]

The states of the Confederacy are a part of the United States, so we shouldn't respect people from that part of the United States? I'm not saying there's any need to respect rebellion, but you have to keep in mind these are Americans we're talking about.

labeling someone as "from the confederate states" is considerably different than labeling someone as "confederate"

[Wesley Williams]

i do have some sympathy for people who make history curricula, especially AP classes and similar levels. that's a ton of information to shove into a few months, and you definitely have to make some tough decisions about what makes the cut and what doesn't. presenting that information in a manner that's free of current cultural or personal influences is also pretty difficult. they probably also have to think about making sure to have information that's relevant to current cultural trends to make sure students can draw connections and learn relevant information at the same time

That may very well be true, personally I would prefer if history is presented from a global, all-encompassing perspective rather than cater to cultural trends. The past hasn't changed, and it would be nice if we could just present the facts and all perspectives such that the curriculum remains static.

[otto-san]

That may very well be true, personally I would prefer if history is presented from a global, all-encompassing perspective rather than cater to cultural trends. The past hasn't changed, and it would be nice if we could just present the facts and all perspectives such that the curriculum remains static.

yeah, that'd obvs be ideal. tho, as always, presenting facts in a completely objective manner when you've got human beings writing the stuff out is a pretty difficult task. and when you're trying to educate students, oftentimes purely objective writing isn't the most effective way to get the point across. i do agree tho that people putting the material together should defo try their best to remain as objective as possible

[Nonnel]

History of Americans' struggles for human rights seems like a good fit for a country that was based on the concept of basic freedoms and inalienable rights

[PhantOS]

That may very well be true, personally I would prefer if history is presented from a global, all-encompassing perspective rather than cater to cultural trends. The past hasn't changed, and it would be nice if we could just present the facts and all perspectives such that the curriculum remains static.

they probably did but the conservatives didn't feel comfortable with the facts being presented and wanted it to be written according to them, which is to say, not focusing on human rights

Germany's curriculum is very specific and when they talk about the holocaust i'm sure they overstress the magnitude of the atrocities committed against the jewish race. However, there's always that one person that can't stand the sight of acknowledgment of a global atrocity and want everything to be completely belittled for their sake. That might be the same 'conservative backlash' crowd you're referring to.

[Gytyyhgfffff]

For those interested in what people mean by liberals rewriting history to support their bias, check out what the College Board did with the AP United States History curriculum in 2014 and 2015. They rewrote it to revolve around struggles for peoples' rights and acceptance, there was a big conservative backlash, they ignored conservative complaints, then people threatened to use a competing business and they decided to re-revise their curriculum.

now i am not sure what to think about the bias inherit in the us history course (a bias that you will most likely be able to find from any history book, mind you) but after some research college board did actually look into the backlash and added some of the stuff that conservatives thought was missing (patriotism, religious influences, founding fathers, etc) into their curriculum. the conservatives seemed to argue that us history should be about the good times in us history, which i personally disagree with. history should be there to enlighten scholars about past mistakes like slavery and internment camps so that future generations don't pull that bullstuff again

since you didn't post any sources i'll post mine so others don't have to spend 5 years looking through bullstuff like i did:
http://mashable.com/2015/07/31/college-board-american-exceptionalism/#UhKUVllq1ZqV
most of the stuff cited in there is from various official backlash against the curriculum
bonus quote of the day: https://puu.sh/vxkok/238cab5bd7.png

[otto-san]

they probably did but the conservatives didn't feel comfortable with the facts being presented and wanted it to be written according to them, which is to say, not focusing on human rights

even if this is a contentious way to present the idea, it is worth mentioning that, since humans naturally tend to seek out information that confirms their biases and ignore information that conflicts with them, it's really difficult to write history down in an objective manner in the first place, and even harder to make sure it's agreeable to everyone, because as we all know, even objective facts are often up for debate in politics. of course, making sure the accepted course of history is agreeable to everyone shouldn't really be a concern, but clearly it's something that people will get upset about

[Nonnel]

bonus quote of the day: https://puu.sh/vxkok/238cab5bd7.png

"If people realize the horrible things this country has done, they won't support us anymore!"

[SeventhSandwich]

I would really like to see what these monuments actually looked like. Honoring fallen Confederate soldiers seems fine to me, but glorifying the Confederacy seems shaky since the sole purpose of its existence was to prevent the end of slavery...